Suvorov.

Doug · 03-16-2002, 12:56 AM

I've always found this one interesting because it mentions one of the link ups with the Americans on the Elbe. He was originally put in for a Nevskii but received a Suvorov 3rd Cl instead.

AWARD SHEET

1. Last name, name and Patronymic—Ishchenko, Petr Andreevich .
2. Rank—Lt. Colonel. 3. Duty Title, unit—Chief of Staff, 13th Independent Tank
Destroyer Artillery Brigade .
3. Submitted for the award of—Order of "Aleksandr Nevskii" .
4. Date of Birth—1905. 5. Nationality—Ukrainian .
6. Party Affiliation—member of the Communist Party .
7. Participation in the Civil War and subsequent combat operations in the
defense of the USSR in the Patriotic War--Patriotic War since 1942 .
8. Wounds or contusions in the Patriotic War—none .
9. In the Red Army since—February, 1940 .
10. Sponsored by which Revolutionary Committee—Shpetolskii RVK, 1940 .
11. Earlier awards—Medal "For Combat Merit" by Order of 10th Army #0255 from .
24-4-42, Patriotic War 1st Class, Order #0182 from 8-8-44 2nd Belor. Front, "Red .
Banner" by Order of the 2nd Belor. Front #05 from 4-1-45 .
12. Permament home address (of the award submittee or his
family)—Kievskaya Oblast', Shpolitskim Region, Pebedich Zavod. Wife: .
Ishchenko-Fedinichenko, Ol'ga Kondrat'evno.

Brief description of the personal combat exploits or merits

During the battle to eliminate an enemy strong point southwest of KÖNIGSBERG and the approaches to the city of BRAUNSBERG in the period from 19 to 25 March, he displayed maximum energy and selflessness in the correct organization of brigade staff operations for directing brigade units in cooperation with other branches of service. The timely and correct situational orientation, constant reconnaissance of the enemy and providing this to the brigade commander, allowed for a final possibility in a timely manner to make responsible decisions, allowing the brigade to successfully complete its mission. The brigade assisted the 53rd Rifle Corps to take several city blocks in BRAUNSBERG and to liquidate an encircled enemy unit along the corps' route of march. During this period, the brigade destroyed 3 tanks, 2 self-propelled weapons, and 4 enemy artillery pieces. During the transfer of the brigade to the 2nd Belorussian Front, he, together with the brigade commander, smartly organized the march and route of march, as a result of which the brigade units completed a 700 kilometer relocation from the area of KÖNIGSBERG to the area of SCHWEDT in two days, attacking in full strength along with 3rd Guards Cavalry Corps and covering a distance of 200 kms in battle over a short period of time, and finally linking-up with the American 13th Corps of the allied forces.
During the actions of the brigade with the 3rd GKK, regardless of the dangerously exposed forward units, he successfully and skillfully overcame difficulties in directing the brigade's units, and as a consequence, the units successfully advanced forward with minimal losses in equipment and manpower, assisting the cavalry in taking the cities of BRAUNSBERG, PERLBERG, WITTENBERG, LENTSEN, and finally reaching the ELBE river, leaving behind the remnants of enemy units by such maneuvers.
During the period from 27.4.45 to 4.5.45, the brigade destroyed up to 300 soldiers and officers, 22 strong points, 58 vehicles, 5 artillery pieces, 7 armored personnel carriers, 4 tanks and took as war booty 8 tanks, 3-75mm batteries, and other equipment, while taking 240 soldiers and officers prisoner.
For excellent organizational work in the brigade staff for directing regiments, assisting the brigade commander in the organization of assault operations along with accompanying cavalry fire and tracked vehicles and attaining success in these operations, he has attained the Governmental Award of the Order of "ALEKSANDER NEVSKII."

Commander, 13th Upper-Dnieper Red Banner Order of Suvorov 3rd Class Aleksandr Nevskii Independent Tank-Destroyer Brigade, High Command Reserve
GUARDS COLONEL
I. Kileev /KILEEV/

"14" May, 1945

Doug · 09-15-2002, 01:30 AM

Here's a rather poor translation of a Suvorov 3rd Class citation. I do not speak Russian so I rely heavily on Alta Vista and my Katzner Dictionary. Of particular interest is that one of the signatures approving the award is that of General - Colonel Chuikov.

Major El'tsov, Commander of the 63rd Independent Motorised-Pontoon-Bridge Battalion, during the crossing of the River Oder by units of the 8th Guards Army, He provided for 10 hours, two ferry crossings which carried loads between 30 and 60 tons.
During this time, under pressure from enemy artillery fire and bombardment from aircraft, these crossings twice went out of order. Major Yel’tsov remained always at the crossings, personally leading the restoration of the crossings so that tanks and artillery could continue to the West bank of the River Oder ensuring the rapid accumulation of the 8th Guards Army for a decisive offensive attack.
After learning of the order to build a bridge that could withstand loads of 60 tons with a length of 250 metres in the vicinity of Kustrin, Major Yel’tsov led and organised the work in spite of the continued destruction of the spans of the bridge and the loss of personnel from artillery fire and enemy aviation. The construction of the bridge was completed by his unit twenty four hours ahead of schedule. This bridge played a major role in the passage of heavy loads and equipment to the bridgehead for the decisive advance.
With this breach in the German defences along the River Oder and the gains of the leading attackers toward the River Spree and Teltov Canal in the vicinity of Berlin, Major El'tsov in a short time ensured the passage of troops to the Western shore contributing to the encirclement of the garrison of German troops in the City of Berlin and the destruction of the Berlin Garrison.
For the outstanding fulfilment of the task of commanding the crossing of the troops of the 8th Guards Army, ensuring the exploitation of the encirclement and liquidation of the Berlin Garrison, Major El'tsov deserves to be awarded the government order of Suvorov 3rd Class.

Again, not a great interpretation, but you get the general idea.

I'm curious about the serial number ranges of Suvorov 3rd Class awards. According to McDaniel, 3163 individuals and 849 units (total = 4012) received this order. Also according to McDaniel, the highest number observed as of the time of his book was 11554. Does anyone have additional serial numbers and dates they can add to the list at the bottom of this post? The front or unit awarding it would be interesting to know as well. There must be some very large gaps in the serial ranges awarded. Has anyone ever encountered a Suvorov 3rd that was not awarded?

I'm thinking this would be an interesting topic of research because the number of awards is limited and because I assume that most people who have one in their collection have had it researched as opposed to other more common orders. Maybe I won't be able to reach any conclusions but I think it would be interesting to see what trends may develop.

If you have research for Suvorov 3rd Class orders, please post it here or PM me. I will post what I find out (if anything) when I get more data.

All the best,

Doug

Award Number/Date of Award/Front

1 1943-02-08
49 1943-07-25 Major Solomahin, commander of 106 field engineer battalion - Leningrad Front
2142 1945-04-19 2nd Ukrainian Front
2453 1945-06-09
2666 1956-12-18 Hungarian Uprising (38th Army)
7869 1943-10-10 Central Front
8280 1943-11 (Deed) 4th Ukrainian Front
8579 1943-12-24 3rd Ukrainian Front
9331 1945-03-03
10288 1945-07-17 1st Byelorussian Front
10968 1945-05-30 1st Byelorussian Front
11554 1945-06-14 2nd Byelorussian Front

charlet · 02-19-2003, 06:31 AM

I'm sorry to have brought such a mess! Tal, I do my best to find data about this, but the catalogue must have been done only on paper, very lucky if itself has a photo...I'll try to get the name of the expert auctioneer, first by my friend. But I believe these infos reliable. French market is by far different, not inferior; we admit for example German houses are more expert about soviet union.
For the reputation of Koenig, see this:

Grand Cross of the legion of honour
Compagnon de la Libération (1038 ones! the most prestigious of the country)

numerous military french medals (...)
• Médaille Militaire
• Croix de Guerre 14/18 (2 citations)
• Croix de Guerre 39/45 (4 citations)
• Médaille de la Résistance avec rosette

• Distinguished Service Order (GB) !!
• Compagnon of the Order of the Bath (UK) !!
• Commandeur of the Legion of Merit (USA) !!
• Gold Medal of the Congress (USA) !!
• Souvorov order 1st class (USSR) !!

• Grand Cross Magistrale of the order of Malta
• Grand Officer of the order of Léopold (Belgium)
• Grand Cross of the crown (Belgium)
• Grand Cross of the Order of Orange Nassau (Nederlands)
• Grand Cross of the royal order of Danebrog (Danemark)
• Grand Cross of Saint Olaf (Norvège)
• Virtuti Militari (Poland)
• Order of white lion for victory (CSSR)
• Grand Cross of Georges 1er (Greece)
• Grand Cross of Oak crown (Luxemburg)
• Grand Cross of Saint Charles (Monaco)
• Grand Cross of the white elephant (Thaïland)

I didn't put other grand cross belonging to the former colonial empire.
As you can see I don't think the credibility of the auctioneer can be doubted. About authentication? from the family of a marshal? and we had not a lot of marshals...Would you ask to authenticate the victory order of the Eisenhower library? (american director will kick you like his french colleague!). I was told there were the documents with the pieces. I think they certainly sold many others souvenirs like papers.
Your remark about price estimation not done is interesting, Tal. As a (poor) explanation, I remark our Suvorov is lost amongst very numerous and prestigious orders...

I won't tell any more due to lack of infos, and I think even fellow collectors can miss a rare piece... but please don't believe I get fun to get into this forum for spreading fools infos!

I found the info and the explanation.
The auction was held on sunday feb 9 and organized by the étude Orsenat.

The report says the estimations exploded, multiplied by 5 or ten. Notably there were Russians, English, Americans and Belgians. The themes: militaria, books.
The order of Liberation, estimated 250 euros!! (Tal you're partly right about the estimation...they're mad) sold at 4300, it is retained by the State (normal it is high french history, Bir Hakeim...we had not a lot of great victories in this war....).

The suvorov has been retained by the State, so it can explain perhaps why the bids didn't grow further. The price is well 6000 euros. It was estimated between 300-400 euros (!!!!). Its estimations was pulverised. It has been sold with the nomination letter to the rank of colonel general (corps d'armee) in date of april 8, 1946, and with the order booklet and its statutes.(follows a curious description of its ribbon...soviet is REALLY exotic for them).
They sold Koenig's bamboo stick (a bit like Montgomery's one), start 550 euros, with 42 decorations and photos: final 3100 euros.
5500 euros for a letter from general de Gaulle for the Koenig's widow, hand-signed by De Gaulle president de la République.
The DSO (UK) and box sold at 5800 euros, the Legion of Merit Commander, USA, in gold, bronze, enamel and ribbon, with box and citation of President Roosevelt: 4 800 euros.
A 1944 photo album from the general staff of koenig: 2600 euros.

And compare: 8 100 euros for a desk in rose wood style Louis XV, XIXth ...

That's all folks! more seriously you can taste of this style of auction; they're very numerous and highly costly pieces.

hope having been helpful

HuliganRS · 03-27-2003, 09:07 PM

I'm speechless...

One of the "Big Guns" has just sold a Order of Suvorov 1st Class!!!

Does anyone know what it sold for?
Who might have bought it?

Here's his Description:

ORDER OF SUVOROV - 1st Class. (RARITY R6!)
Serial Number: 313 - New "highest observed" for the type.
Comes with Certificate of Authenticity from Paul McDaniel (one of the authors of the book: P.McDaniel and P.Schmitt "Comprehensive Guide to Soviet Orders and Medals"), very high 8 out of 10 condition rating.
Issued to Lieutenant-General Buhovetz G.K., a recipient of another 1st Class Order - Order of Kutuzov 1st Class #185.
Set also includes:
a) Copy of the Military Personal File!
b) Copies of Official Archival Research, with personal data, all of the awards, occupied positions (beginning from 1920-21), etc.

Provenance: Published in the Journal of the Orders and Medals Society of America, Vol 43, No. 8, August/September 1992. Tom Lifka "Collecting Soviet State Awards - Part IV".

Excellent condition with medium patina.
Price: SOLD
Extremely Rare Highest Military Order, with most given to Marshals and 3-4 star Generals, who, being already Generals in 1940's, were not likely to live up to the 1977, when Soviet Laws changed and allowed relatives to keep the Order in the family (before that, it was to be surrendered, together with most other awards, to the Soviet State Defense Ministry)...

new world · 05-22-2003, 10:07 AM

Suvorov 1st class.

Opinions and sincere admiration are appreciated :)

William

RedMaestro2 · 03-05-2011, 11:34 PM

While browsing a Russian forum I found this fascinating document. The first Ukaz listed, #341, awards the Cambodian King Norodom Suramarit with an Order of Suvorov 1st Class. Ukaz #342 does the same for his son, Prince (later King) Norodom Sihanouk. The text of both decrees mentions building friendly relations with the USSR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norodom_Suramarit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norodom_Sihanouk

This Ukaz awards Emperor Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia a Suvorov 1st Class. The citation reads something like (thank you google translator):

"Recognizing outstanding achievements in the organization of the heroic struggle of the people of Ethiopia against the fascist aggressors on the side of Allies during the Second World War, marking a significant contribution to the establishment and development of friendly relations and to commemorate a visit to the USSR..."

Has anyone ever seen these decrees before? Anyone have additional information?

Cheers, :thumbsup

Alex

tashkentski · 09-13-2003, 02:09 PM

I recently brought back from london, a large part of my collection which i had accumulated over 11 years, almost all of it bought in the Central Asian and Caucasian Republics. After all this time I was surprised at the stuff i had, and over the coming weeks will post as many interesting ones as i can.
I am attaching 4 scans here. Two of Suvurov 2nd class and 2 of 3rd class. I think i bought one in Uzbekistan and the second in Baku.
The second class is numbered 914 and the 3rd class 8610
Gentlemen , your views?

tashkentski · 09-13-2003, 02:18 PM

3rd class 8610

olezha11 · 09-13-2003, 04:22 PM

Rusty,
You have good eyes. Maybe it's a different variation?

The hair style on suvorov is off too.

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03-16-2002, 12:56 AM	#1
Doug Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 45	Suvorov III, I've always found this one interesting because it mentions one of the link ups with the Americans on the Elbe. He was originally put in for a Nevskii but received a Suvorov 3rd Cl instead. AWARD SHEET 1. Last name, name and Patronymic—Ishchenko, Petr Andreevich . 2. Rank—Lt. Colonel. 3. Duty Title, unit—Chief of Staff, 13th Independent Tank Destroyer Artillery Brigade . 3. Submitted for the award of—Order of "Aleksandr Nevskii" . 4. Date of Birth—1905. 5. Nationality—Ukrainian . 6. Party Affiliation—member of the Communist Party . 7. Participation in the Civil War and subsequent combat operations in the defense of the USSR in the Patriotic War--Patriotic War since 1942 . 8. Wounds or contusions in the Patriotic War—none . 9. In the Red Army since—February, 1940 . 10. Sponsored by which Revolutionary Committee—Shpetolskii RVK, 1940 . 11. Earlier awards—Medal "For Combat Merit" by Order of 10th Army #0255 from . 24-4-42, Patriotic War 1st Class, Order #0182 from 8-8-44 2nd Belor. Front, "Red . Banner" by Order of the 2nd Belor. Front #05 from 4-1-45 . 12. Permament home address (of the award submittee or his family)—Kievskaya Oblast', Shpolitskim Region, Pebedich Zavod. Wife: . Ishchenko-Fedinichenko, Ol'ga Kondrat'evno. Brief description of the personal combat exploits or merits During the battle to eliminate an enemy strong point southwest of KÖNIGSBERG and the approaches to the city of BRAUNSBERG in the period from 19 to 25 March, he displayed maximum energy and selflessness in the correct organization of brigade staff operations for directing brigade units in cooperation with other branches of service. The timely and correct situational orientation, constant reconnaissance of the enemy and providing this to the brigade commander, allowed for a final possibility in a timely manner to make responsible decisions, allowing the brigade to successfully complete its mission. The brigade assisted the 53rd Rifle Corps to take several city blocks in BRAUNSBERG and to liquidate an encircled enemy unit along the corps' route of march. During this period, the brigade destroyed 3 tanks, 2 self-propelled weapons, and 4 enemy artillery pieces. During the transfer of the brigade to the 2nd Belorussian Front, he, together with the brigade commander, smartly organized the march and route of march, as a result of which the brigade units completed a 700 kilometer relocation from the area of KÖNIGSBERG to the area of SCHWEDT in two days, attacking in full strength along with 3rd Guards Cavalry Corps and covering a distance of 200 kms in battle over a short period of time, and finally linking-up with the American 13th Corps of the allied forces. During the actions of the brigade with the 3rd GKK, regardless of the dangerously exposed forward units, he successfully and skillfully overcame difficulties in directing the brigade's units, and as a consequence, the units successfully advanced forward with minimal losses in equipment and manpower, assisting the cavalry in taking the cities of BRAUNSBERG, PERLBERG, WITTENBERG, LENTSEN, and finally reaching the ELBE river, leaving behind the remnants of enemy units by such maneuvers. During the period from 27.4.45 to 4.5.45, the brigade destroyed up to 300 soldiers and officers, 22 strong points, 58 vehicles, 5 artillery pieces, 7 armored personnel carriers, 4 tanks and took as war booty 8 tanks, 3-75mm batteries, and other equipment, while taking 240 soldiers and officers prisoner. For excellent organizational work in the brigade staff for directing regiments, assisting the brigade commander in the organization of assault operations along with accompanying cavalry fire and tracked vehicles and attaining success in these operations, he has attained the Governmental Award of the Order of "ALEKSANDER NEVSKII." Commander, 13th Upper-Dnieper Red Banner Order of Suvorov 3rd Class Aleksandr Nevskii Independent Tank-Destroyer Brigade, High Command Reserve GUARDS COLONEL I. Kileev /KILEEV/ "14" May, 1945

09-15-2002, 01:30 AM	#2
Doug Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 45	Here's a rather poor translation of a Suvorov 3rd Class citation. I do not speak Russian so I rely heavily on Alta Vista and my Katzner Dictionary. Of particular interest is that one of the signatures approving the award is that of General - Colonel Chuikov. Major El'tsov, Commander of the 63rd Independent Motorised-Pontoon-Bridge Battalion, during the crossing of the River Oder by units of the 8th Guards Army, He provided for 10 hours, two ferry crossings which carried loads between 30 and 60 tons. During this time, under pressure from enemy artillery fire and bombardment from aircraft, these crossings twice went out of order. Major Yel’tsov remained always at the crossings, personally leading the restoration of the crossings so that tanks and artillery could continue to the West bank of the River Oder ensuring the rapid accumulation of the 8th Guards Army for a decisive offensive attack. After learning of the order to build a bridge that could withstand loads of 60 tons with a length of 250 metres in the vicinity of Kustrin, Major Yel’tsov led and organised the work in spite of the continued destruction of the spans of the bridge and the loss of personnel from artillery fire and enemy aviation. The construction of the bridge was completed by his unit twenty four hours ahead of schedule. This bridge played a major role in the passage of heavy loads and equipment to the bridgehead for the decisive advance. With this breach in the German defences along the River Oder and the gains of the leading attackers toward the River Spree and Teltov Canal in the vicinity of Berlin, Major El'tsov in a short time ensured the passage of troops to the Western shore contributing to the encirclement of the garrison of German troops in the City of Berlin and the destruction of the Berlin Garrison. For the outstanding fulfilment of the task of commanding the crossing of the troops of the 8th Guards Army, ensuring the exploitation of the encirclement and liquidation of the Berlin Garrison, Major El'tsov deserves to be awarded the government order of Suvorov 3rd Class. Again, not a great interpretation, but you get the general idea. I'm curious about the serial number ranges of Suvorov 3rd Class awards. According to McDaniel, 3163 individuals and 849 units (total = 4012) received this order. Also according to McDaniel, the highest number observed as of the time of his book was 11554. Does anyone have additional serial numbers and dates they can add to the list at the bottom of this post? The front or unit awarding it would be interesting to know as well. There must be some very large gaps in the serial ranges awarded. Has anyone ever encountered a Suvorov 3rd that was not awarded? I'm thinking this would be an interesting topic of research because the number of awards is limited and because I assume that most people who have one in their collection have had it researched as opposed to other more common orders. Maybe I won't be able to reach any conclusions but I think it would be interesting to see what trends may develop. If you have research for Suvorov 3rd Class orders, please post it here or PM me. I will post what I find out (if anything) when I get more data. All the best, Doug Award Number/Date of Award/Front 1 1943-02-08 49 1943-07-25 Major Solomahin, commander of 106 field engineer battalion - Leningrad Front 2142 1945-04-19 2nd Ukrainian Front 2453 1945-06-09 2666 1956-12-18 Hungarian Uprising (38th Army) 7869 1943-10-10 Central Front 8280 1943-11 (Deed) 4th Ukrainian Front 8579 1943-12-24 3rd Ukrainian Front 9331 1945-03-03 10288 1945-07-17 1st Byelorussian Front 10968 1945-05-30 1st Byelorussian Front 11554 1945-06-14 2nd Byelorussian Front

02-19-2003, 06:31 AM	#3
charlet Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Age: 49 Posts: 791	I'm sorry to have brought such a mess! Tal, I do my best to find data about this, but the catalogue must have been done only on paper, very lucky if itself has a photo...I'll try to get the name of the expert auctioneer, first by my friend. But I believe these infos reliable. French market is by far different, not inferior; we admit for example German houses are more expert about soviet union. For the reputation of Koenig, see this: Grand Cross of the legion of honour Compagnon de la Libération (1038 ones! the most prestigious of the country) numerous military french medals (...) • Médaille Militaire • Croix de Guerre 14/18 (2 citations) • Croix de Guerre 39/45 (4 citations) • Médaille de la Résistance avec rosette • Distinguished Service Order (GB) !! • Compagnon of the Order of the Bath (UK) !! • Commandeur of the Legion of Merit (USA) !! • Gold Medal of the Congress (USA) !! • Souvorov order 1st class (USSR) !! • Grand Cross Magistrale of the order of Malta • Grand Officer of the order of Léopold (Belgium) • Grand Cross of the crown (Belgium) • Grand Cross of the Order of Orange Nassau (Nederlands) • Grand Cross of the royal order of Danebrog (Danemark) • Grand Cross of Saint Olaf (Norvège) • Virtuti Militari (Poland) • Order of white lion for victory (CSSR) • Grand Cross of Georges 1er (Greece) • Grand Cross of Oak crown (Luxemburg) • Grand Cross of Saint Charles (Monaco) • Grand Cross of the white elephant (Thaïland) I didn't put other grand cross belonging to the former colonial empire. As you can see I don't think the credibility of the auctioneer can be doubted. About authentication? from the family of a marshal? and we had not a lot of marshals...Would you ask to authenticate the victory order of the Eisenhower library? (american director will kick you like his french colleague!). I was told there were the documents with the pieces. I think they certainly sold many others souvenirs like papers. Your remark about price estimation not done is interesting, Tal. As a (poor) explanation, I remark our Suvorov is lost amongst very numerous and prestigious orders... I won't tell any more due to lack of infos, and I think even fellow collectors can miss a rare piece... but please don't believe I get fun to get into this forum for spreading fools infos! I found the info and the explanation. The auction was held on sunday feb 9 and organized by the étude Orsenat. The report says the estimations exploded, multiplied by 5 or ten. Notably there were Russians, English, Americans and Belgians. The themes: militaria, books. The order of Liberation, estimated 250 euros!! (Tal you're partly right about the estimation...they're mad) sold at 4300, it is retained by the State (normal it is high french history, Bir Hakeim...we had not a lot of great victories in this war....). The suvorov has been retained by the State, so it can explain perhaps why the bids didn't grow further. The price is well 6000 euros. It was estimated between 300-400 euros (!!!!). Its estimations was pulverised. It has been sold with the nomination letter to the rank of colonel general (corps d'armee) in date of april 8, 1946, and with the order booklet and its statutes.(follows a curious description of its ribbon...soviet is REALLY exotic for them). They sold Koenig's bamboo stick (a bit like Montgomery's one), start 550 euros, with 42 decorations and photos: final 3100 euros. 5500 euros for a letter from general de Gaulle for the Koenig's widow, hand-signed by De Gaulle president de la République. The DSO (UK) and box sold at 5800 euros, the Legion of Merit Commander, USA, in gold, bronze, enamel and ribbon, with box and citation of President Roosevelt: 4 800 euros. A 1944 photo album from the general staff of koenig: 2600 euros. And compare: 8 100 euros for a desk in rose wood style Louis XV, XIXth ... That's all folks! more seriously you can taste of this style of auction; they're very numerous and highly costly pieces. hope having been helpful __________________ Sebastien "a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism" (a well-known german bearbed)

09-13-2003, 04:22 PM	#9
olezha11 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New York, USA Posts: 37	Rusty, You have good eyes. Maybe it's a different variation? The hair style on suvorov is off too.

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