Glory.

[CtahhR]

There is a distinct difference between "unawarded" and "fake". Also very frequently awards were not issued 1 2 3 4 etc. but 250, 17, 18, 19, 255 etc which allows for some higher numbers getting awarded but lower ones not.

There are plenty of unissued awards in the collection that are certainly not fake.

[Henry Sakaida]

Originally Posted by CtahhR

There is a distinct difference between "unawarded" and "fake". Also very frequently awards were not issued 1 2 3 4 etc. but 250, 17, 18, 19, 255 etc which allows for some higher numbers getting awarded but lower ones not.

There are plenty of unissued awards in the collection that are certainly not fake.

Yes, you are quite right! I really don't know if the OG1 is a "fake." My thinking is, consider everything a fake until you know it's real. That way, you don't wind up screwing yourself. Sort of like guilty until proven innocent! But very definitely that HSU from Cyprus!!!:thumbsup

[slava1stclass]

Originally Posted by Henry Sakaida

Yes, you are quite right! I really don't know if the OG1 is a "fake." My thinking is, consider everything a fake until you know it's real. That way, you don't wind up screwing yourself. Sort of like guilty until proven innocent! But very definitely that HSU from Cyprus!!!:thumbsup

Henry,

While caution is always paramount , it would be mistaken to uniformly write off all items on the well-known site as bad. In this instance, my reservation is that this is an unissued/non-awarded example and the price should reflect that fact i.e., it should be lower.

The other OGI also currently found on the well-known site (posted/discussed in the "Fakes" thread) is an entirely different matter.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

Gents,

Currently (January 31st, 2014) available at a well-known NYC-area dealer. A single/loose OGII as issued to a Full Cavalier. Price: $1,200.00.

There is an interesting backstory here. The OGI to this same Full Cavalier was stolen from another well-known NYC-area dealer back on August 8th, 2002. Last I knew, the stolen OGI was never recovered. At that time, the dealer offered a $100,000.00 reward for the recovery of the orders, medals, antiques and coins stolen during the armed robbery.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

Gents,

I came upon these images. You don't see this every day...

Regards,

slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

Originally Posted by Henry Sakaida

Back in 2001, I bought a Cavalier Order of Glory set. The 1st Class Glory was serial number 1XX, which was extremely low!!! I immediately started my research to make it "talk." Was it stolen or sold by the recipient?

I got the cavalier's military records from Moscow and it listed his address in a small town in Russia. So I simply wrote to him, explaining that I was a journalist and wishing information about his war career. I never heard back. I did not say that I had his Cavalier set. My hope was to have him respond, and eventually tell me about his medals. I sat on this case from 2001 until March 2013.

Then I had an idea. I typed his name in Cyrillic on google.ru (ru=Russia).
Bingo! Someone had written up his biography, and photos!!! The photos, taken of him in 2005, showed him wearing his Cavalier set!!! How can this be, when I had them, and they had been authenticated by Historical Research LLC (Paul McDaniel)??? I even had the guy's order book.

So, either Paul was mistaken and I had copies or the Cavalier had copies. In looking at the photo of this man, I could see that his Glory1st hung higher on the bar than the 2nd and 3rd. I took my set and saw that the Glory
1st was level with the 2nd and 3rd. So it has to be that the Cavalier lost his original set and had them replaced. I also learned that he died about 5 years ago.

I can't imagine the Cavalier selling his Glories. So I surmised that it was stolen and he got them replaced. Under the Soviet law, he could get them officially replaced if he could prove that they were lost or stolen. But the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991 and I got the medals in 2001. But I don't know if under the Russian Federation law, it would be replaced.

But since he had the lost ones replaced, I will keep these. It took me nearly 12 years, but I get a kick out of digging for the truth! This guy was greatly respected. If I ever go back to see the giant statue of Rodina in Stalingrad (Volgograd), I will make a slight detour and visit the town where he is buried and lay flowers on his grave. I can find his daughter, no problem. I hope to visit her as a journalist, and I hope she will tell me what happened to her dad's original Cavalier set!


Attachment 68080

Attachment 68081

Henry,

Judging from his "total package", your man was heroic indeed. A truly wonderful Full Cavalier set in which you can be proud. Congrats!

Regards,

slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

Originally Posted by Shocktrooper

Hello everybody,

a friend of mine has recently bought an order of glory III. class, which has been found on a field in the vicinity of Potsdam (suburb of Berlin).

It MAY be that the owner of this order died in the last few weeks of WWII during the battle of Berlin and is still MIA...

is it is possible to find out, if this is true concerning the number of the order ? (by asking the Russian embassy / in the Russian archives)

The number is: 169.642

Regards,

Jens*

Originally Posted by Shocktrooper

Hello again,

these are the only images I do have for now...

Jens

Jens,

Did your friend ever research this ground-dug OGIII - s/n 169642?

Regards,

slava1stclass

[slava1stclass]

Gents,

Currently on the well-known auction site as part of a "group" offering. This OGII looks legit to me.

Based on a podvig check, neither this OGII or the OPWII also offered as part of this "group" appear to be associated with the name on the paperwork included in the offer.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[CtahhR]

That's a solid proving point of how great a tool "the site" is against dodgy booklet entries made to boost prices.

That is of course unless the Glory was awarded for long service or the Korean War and as we all know that never happened. Very different deal when it comes to long service awards, but they're not as "sexy" as combat groups so aren't as frequently put together.

[slava1stclass]

Gents,

This small group sold on the well-known auction site last DEC for a BIN price of $999.99.

A quick check of podvig confirmed this individual was awarded an ORB and OGIII. His OGIII award citation would seem to support its low s/n. One would have to order his award record card to confirm these orders were actually the ones issued to him.

I'll defer to the document experts as to the authenticity of the Belgrade paperwork although the OK appears GTG at first glance.

He was assigned to the 1291st Rifle Regiment, 110th Rifle Division, 50th Army.

Regards,

slava1stclass