Forgery Ring "cracked" by FSB

McLenin · 08-20-2003, 07:09 AM

This was recently on RFE/RL Russian news. Apologies if you have heard it already.

McLenin

AUTHORITIES CRACK RING THAT ALLEGEDLY FORGED STATE HONORS. The FSB
has alleged that the Association of Heroes of the Soviet Union and
Russia has been illegally producing forged documents that seemingly
bestow some of Russia's highest state awards, Russian media reported
on 15 August. The association allegedly sold the documents for large
sums of money. The association, which reportedly has no real heroes
of Russia or the Soviet Union among its members, also illegally
obtained the Golden Star of Heroes that belonged to laureates who are
deceased. The Hero Order is one of Russia's most prestigious state
awards, and it is in extremely high demand on the black market since
it confers lucrative benefits including tax breaks, discount lending
rates, and opportunities to purchase prestigious real estate. An FSB
spokesman said that some 30 people have been detained in connection
with the case, including association head Aleksei Kuznetsov, who has
allegedly posed as an FSB lieutenant colonel. A search of the
association's office reportedly uncovered numerous false documents
and a personal firearm with a forged inscription purporting to be on
behalf of the FSB. Investigators alleged that the association tried
to infiltrate its own people within the law enforcement organs, the
Justice Ministry, and other government agencies, including the
offices of the presidential envoys to the seven federal districts, in
order to lobby the association's interests. VY

scook17 · 08-22-2003, 06:39 AM

So do the holders of HSU medals still get the benefits of these award? I assumed all the soviet benefits of awards were no longer applicable post soviet union. Are we talking about the HSU issued by Russia? I guess they are not called Heroes of Soviet Union any more. What are the now referred to as?

Kind Regards,
Shane Cook.

Lapa · 08-22-2003, 07:49 AM

Shane,

A couple of months ago, HSU were still called that, and holders of Soviet orders and medals were still enjoying their original privileges and benefits, such as free transportation, etc. This is for Russia, I am not sure about the other FSU states, but I have a strong incline to think they do the same.

Marc

Ed Maier · 08-22-2003, 12:27 PM

As far as I know, the holders of Soviet Orders were still receiving their benifits in at least Russia, and I wouls suspect in the other former Republics as well. The new Russian Federation title for the HSU is the Hero of Russia.

What confuses me about this article, is that if they sold the Hero Star to a "collector", they would make more money then they would ever receive in benifits from the State. It really doesn't add up to me as being the "whole truth and nothing but the truth." This sounds like an interesting spin to a story that is designed to limit what the government would see as an imbarrasing situation of HSUs being sold outside of the country because of poor economic conditions for the honored recipients.

Also, for a title so honored in Russia, it is not hard for anyone to look up an know if the person beofre then was actually a HSU or not.

This is just my opinion, but when I read it, all of the little red warning flags (pardon the pun) went off on the Soviet B.S. scale in my head.

Just my opinion,
Ed M.

otlichnik · 08-25-2003, 01:29 AM

Ed, Marc,

Are you actually implying that the FSB might lie or distort the truth?? Could that be? Now I will have to examine everything they have told me is true...

Shawn

tinmoldova · 08-25-2003, 05:56 PM

A HSU wouldn't have to wear his hero star in order to get his public benefits these days--many of the benefits (public transportation and the like) are available to all seniors, Heros and peasants alike. Other benefits, such as housing, would have been given to the HSU long ago (i.e. a closed issue decades ago). The benefit system, such as a pension, would have been set up long ago so that ID would only be pro forma at these offices in order to record that the pension was given. (Do you think a pensioneer who had been coming to the same benefits office for 50 years would suddenly need to produce evidence (i.e. the award itself) to prove that he really is a HSU?!) In short, veterans could sell their orders, keep the award documents, and continue to get all the priveleges/benefits their meritorious standing to the motherland would bestow upon them.

Lapa · 09-04-2003, 04:49 PM

Shawn,

I am not looking for any kind of polemic here. I agree that anybody entitled to a benefit usually proves its rights to it with his order book; this is quite a common occurence in big cities, on public transportation when the conductor asks for payment of the fare.

As to the article quoted, it comes from a news agency, NOT from the FSB directly. I know that journalists are intrinsiquely honnest people (well... usually), but they are also known to either "spice up" reports, or plainly dilute the information when there is not enough material available. And, with no intent to sully their respectable profession, not all of them are necessarily experts on the fields they are reporting about, I have way too often found that out in the past when dealing with them.

So, in short, no, I do not mean to infer or imply that the FSB are lying or misleading. I just report my experiences, which seem to contradict a journalistic report. Nothing more.

Marc

Ed Maier · 09-05-2003, 01:02 AM

Shawn,

I agree with Marc here as well. My comments had nothing to do with the FSB, but were about the typical B.S. that is put out by Soviet/Russian state controlled media. Nothing is ever what it seems to be, and the basic premiss of that story stinks to high heaven.

All I was trying to do, was to get people to view everything that is written as fact from Russia filtered through a B.S. meter. There is always some grain of truth to the story, but the extras are clouded and distorted. Use your thinking cap, understand the realities of life there, and you might get to some vauge idea of the truth.

I'm sure they busted a forgery ring. Its just everything else in that story that is not true.

Take care,
Ed

skipper1939 · 10-18-2003, 09:41 PM

I think that there is very little possibility that Soviet awards benefits are being provided in FSU republics like Turministan or Azerbaizhan. Maybe in those Central Asian states that are being "stabilized" by Russian troops.

There is also the troublesome problem of the worth of the Russian ruble. For a long time pensions and other benefits were kept at the original ruble amount, which amounted to virtually nothing when the roller coaster of inflation was at its worst. The Russian government has "adjusted" benefits, but they are still close to being tokens. Real estate is another problem. Apartments that were granted are being bought by hook or by crook and non-existent Russian law, and rennovated and rented to new Russians.

Dachas awarded to HSU holders in non-Russian republics (e.g Estonia) have simply been taken away and sold to citizens of that country. Russians living in Estonia, for example, must prove (as in Switzerland) that they are now Estonians by learning the language, eating Estonian food. But Russian citizen HSU holders living permanently in Moscow or St. Peterburg have lost their summer dachas and anything else they held. Dr. Bob

tinmoldova · 10-18-2003, 10:36 PM

In Moldova, free public transportation and some free food around May 9 are the only universally true benefits still offered to all vets that I saw. I think most get a military pension for their service, but, even though obviously not paid in rubles, it amounts to a very small percentage of the monthly minimum consumer basket.

08-20-2003, 07:09 AM	#1
McLenin Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bonnie Scotland Age: 58 Posts: 56	Forgery Ring "cracked" by FSB This was recently on RFE/RL Russian news. Apologies if you have heard it already. McLenin AUTHORITIES CRACK RING THAT ALLEGEDLY FORGED STATE HONORS. The FSB has alleged that the Association of Heroes of the Soviet Union and Russia has been illegally producing forged documents that seemingly bestow some of Russia's highest state awards, Russian media reported on 15 August. The association allegedly sold the documents for large sums of money. The association, which reportedly has no real heroes of Russia or the Soviet Union among its members, also illegally obtained the Golden Star of Heroes that belonged to laureates who are deceased. The Hero Order is one of Russia's most prestigious state awards, and it is in extremely high demand on the black market since it confers lucrative benefits including tax breaks, discount lending rates, and opportunities to purchase prestigious real estate. An FSB spokesman said that some 30 people have been detained in connection with the case, including association head Aleksei Kuznetsov, who has allegedly posed as an FSB lieutenant colonel. A search of the association's office reportedly uncovered numerous false documents and a personal firearm with a forged inscription purporting to be on behalf of the FSB. Investigators alleged that the association tried to infiltrate its own people within the law enforcement organs, the Justice Ministry, and other government agencies, including the offices of the presidential envoys to the seven federal districts, in order to lobby the association's interests. VY

09-04-2003, 04:49 PM	#7
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Shawn, I am not looking for any kind of polemic here. I agree that anybody entitled to a benefit usually proves its rights to it with his order book; this is quite a common occurence in big cities, on public transportation when the conductor asks for payment of the fare. As to the article quoted, it comes from a news agency, NOT from the FSB directly. I know that journalists are intrinsiquely honnest people (well... usually), but they are also known to either "spice up" reports, or plainly dilute the information when there is not enough material available. And, with no intent to sully their respectable profession, not all of them are necessarily experts on the fields they are reporting about, I have way too often found that out in the past when dealing with them. So, in short, no, I do not mean to infer or imply that the FSB are lying or misleading. I just report my experiences, which seem to contradict a journalistic report. Nothing more. Marc Last edited by Lapa; 09-04-2003 at 05:00 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
New Moderator of "Flags and Banners" and "Uniforms, Hats and Insignia"	Art	Forum Announcements And Rules	0	01-24-2003 05:39 PM
New Moderator of "Fake Alert!" and "Reference Materials For Sale"	Art	Forum Announcements And Rules	0	05-19-2002 09:52 AM
New moderator of "Paper Items" and "Uniforms, Hats and Insignia"	Art	Forum Announcements And Rules	0	04-09-2002 07:49 PM

08-22-2003, 06:39 AM	#2
scook17 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 220	So do the holders of HSU medals still get the benefits of these award? I assumed all the soviet benefits of awards were no longer applicable post soviet union. Are we talking about the HSU issued by Russia? I guess they are not called Heroes of Soviet Union any more. What are the now referred to as? Kind Regards, Shane Cook.

08-22-2003, 07:49 AM	#3
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Shane, A couple of months ago, HSU were still called that, and holders of Soviet orders and medals were still enjoying their original privileges and benefits, such as free transportation, etc. This is for Russia, I am not sure about the other FSU states, but I have a strong incline to think they do the same. Marc

08-22-2003, 12:27 PM	#4
Ed Maier Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Frederick, MD Age: 55 Posts: 203	As far as I know, the holders of Soviet Orders were still receiving their benifits in at least Russia, and I wouls suspect in the other former Republics as well. The new Russian Federation title for the HSU is the Hero of Russia. What confuses me about this article, is that if they sold the Hero Star to a "collector", they would make more money then they would ever receive in benifits from the State. It really doesn't add up to me as being the "whole truth and nothing but the truth." This sounds like an interesting spin to a story that is designed to limit what the government would see as an imbarrasing situation of HSUs being sold outside of the country because of poor economic conditions for the honored recipients. Also, for a title so honored in Russia, it is not hard for anyone to look up an know if the person beofre then was actually a HSU or not. This is just my opinion, but when I read it, all of the little red warning flags (pardon the pun) went off on the Soviet B.S. scale in my head. Just my opinion, Ed M.

08-25-2003, 01:29 AM	#5
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	Ed, Marc, Are you actually implying that the FSB might lie or distort the truth?? Could that be? Now I will have to examine everything they have told me is true... Shawn

08-25-2003, 05:56 PM	#6
tinmoldova Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 61	A HSU wouldn't have to wear his hero star in order to get his public benefits these days--many of the benefits (public transportation and the like) are available to all seniors, Heros and peasants alike. Other benefits, such as housing, would have been given to the HSU long ago (i.e. a closed issue decades ago). The benefit system, such as a pension, would have been set up long ago so that ID would only be pro forma at these offices in order to record that the pension was given. (Do you think a pensioneer who had been coming to the same benefits office for 50 years would suddenly need to produce evidence (i.e. the award itself) to prove that he really is a HSU?!) In short, veterans could sell their orders, keep the award documents, and continue to get all the priveleges/benefits their meritorious standing to the motherland would bestow upon them.

09-05-2003, 01:02 AM	#8
Ed Maier Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Frederick, MD Age: 55 Posts: 203	Shawn, I agree with Marc here as well. My comments had nothing to do with the FSB, but were about the typical B.S. that is put out by Soviet/Russian state controlled media. Nothing is ever what it seems to be, and the basic premiss of that story stinks to high heaven. All I was trying to do, was to get people to view everything that is written as fact from Russia filtered through a B.S. meter. There is always some grain of truth to the story, but the extras are clouded and distorted. Use your thinking cap, understand the realities of life there, and you might get to some vauge idea of the truth. I'm sure they busted a forgery ring. Its just everything else in that story that is not true. Take care, Ed

10-18-2003, 09:41 PM	#9
skipper1939 Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Kent, Ohio - USA Age: 84 Posts: 61	I think that there is very little possibility that Soviet awards benefits are being provided in FSU republics like Turministan or Azerbaizhan. Maybe in those Central Asian states that are being "stabilized" by Russian troops. There is also the troublesome problem of the worth of the Russian ruble. For a long time pensions and other benefits were kept at the original ruble amount, which amounted to virtually nothing when the roller coaster of inflation was at its worst. The Russian government has "adjusted" benefits, but they are still close to being tokens. Real estate is another problem. Apartments that were granted are being bought by hook or by crook and non-existent Russian law, and rennovated and rented to new Russians. Dachas awarded to HSU holders in non-Russian republics (e.g Estonia) have simply been taken away and sold to citizens of that country. Russians living in Estonia, for example, must prove (as in Switzerland) that they are now Estonians by learning the language, eating Estonian food. But Russian citizen HSU holders living permanently in Moscow or St. Peterburg have lost their summer dachas and anything else they held. Dr. Bob

10-18-2003, 10:36 PM	#10
tinmoldova Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 61	In Moldova, free public transportation and some free food around May 9 are the only universally true benefits still offered to all vets that I saw. I think most get a military pension for their service, but, even though obviously not paid in rubles, it amounts to a very small percentage of the monthly minimum consumer basket.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)