Hammer & Plough Red Star Cockade

Mr. Scratch · 03-19-2009, 05:31 PM

Can someone tell me if this is good or not, and how much it might be worth if it is? It looks good to me but I want to be sure before I spend my hard-earned money.

Lapa · 03-19-2009, 06:37 PM

Mr Scratch,

With puictures of such poor quality, it could almost be anything. Based on what can be made out (that is, not much...), I tend to believe that it is :thumbsdown

Marc

DougD · 03-21-2009, 09:01 AM

Hello and welcome to the forum! These early Red Army cap badges are, like the early caps themselves, very tough to deal with.

These badges are faked (see ebay), and even the real ones vary greatly from any standard. I think you will get varying responses to this badge, but if it were offered to me I think I might take this one. Does not look glassy (though that could be the photo) has the thicker prongs, good wear, etc.

DougD

Mr. Scratch · 03-21-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougD

Hello and welcome to the forum! These early Red Does not look glassy (though that could be the photo) has the thicker prongs, good wear, etc.

DougD

Is a glassy/gloss finish definitely a bad thing? This looks like it does have a somewhat glossy surface, at least in the 3rd photo. I know a lot of these were just painted and have a matt finish, but did they also do them with enamel?

Also, I've been told these were more typically stamped, while this one is cast. Has anyone seen a genuine cast example?

DougD · 03-21-2009, 05:56 PM

The really glassy look is, in my opinion, not a good thing. Here is a poor shot of a repro with that 'glassy' look to it. I think enamel is ok, but modern sharp enamel, with thin prongs in back, would not sit well with me if i were offered it.

Again, these badges varied a LOT! Opinions will vary a lot as well!

DougD

Dzerzhinsky · 03-22-2009, 12:08 AM

Doug is absolutley correct stating opinions will vary. Based upon the pictures, it looks good to me. I especially find the flat back intriguing. Prior to 1922-24, Soviet Russia did not make these in a standardized form, which makes collecting this stuff interesting. Anyway, depending on the price, I would take the plunge. If the seller is confident in the badge, he might allow you to inspect it before purchasing it. Likewise, he should have a return policy understanding the nature of the business. Glassy enamel is probably not a good thing, but I have learned from experience that camera flash is not a good thing when trying to sell these on internet. With that said, it is difficult to know if the enamel is good unless you have a chance to handle the item. I do believe these badges were enamled as well as painted, but the quality of the enamel was far better than the fake pieces of today. I have probably talked too much as it is...Good luck!

Mr. Scratch · 03-22-2009, 01:07 AM

Okay guys, I'll roll the dice on it. Cost is about $80 which I have no idea is fair or not, assuming it is original. I don't think I've ever seen one for sale before so I just have to guess at what is is worth.

I'll send in some better pics when I have it in hand.

Lapa · 03-22-2009, 07:25 AM

IMHO, it is way too low a price for a genuine cocade of this type.

Marc

DougD · 03-22-2009, 09:08 AM

The price is very good for he badge (assuming real), so perhaps the seller does not know what they have. Look forward to better photos when its in.

DougD

Mr. Scratch · 04-02-2009, 03:09 PM

Okay guys, here it is.

The seller bent one of the prongs back for some unknown reason, but they are both still there and it is the same cockade (all the dings and blemishes match from the previous photo). It has a pretty convincing patina (looks better in person). It also seems a bit darker in-hand, this photo was taken in direct sunlight to bring out the red. Whaddya think?

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03-19-2009, 06:37 PM	#2
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Re: Hammer & Plow Red Star Cockade Mr Scratch, With puictures of such poor quality, it could almost be anything. Based on what can be made out (that is, not much...), I tend to believe that it is :thumbsdown Marc

03-21-2009, 09:01 AM	#3
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 50 Posts: 2,060	Re: Hammer & Plow Red Star Cockade Hello and welcome to the forum! These early Red Army cap badges are, like the early caps themselves, very tough to deal with. These badges are faked (see ebay), and even the real ones vary greatly from any standard. I think you will get varying responses to this badge, but if it were offered to me I think I might take this one. Does not look glassy (though that could be the photo) has the thicker prongs, good wear, etc. DougD

03-22-2009, 12:08 AM	#6
Dzerzhinsky Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 44	Re: Hammer & Plow Red Star Cockade Doug is absolutley correct stating opinions will vary. Based upon the pictures, it looks good to me. I especially find the flat back intriguing. Prior to 1922-24, Soviet Russia did not make these in a standardized form, which makes collecting this stuff interesting. Anyway, depending on the price, I would take the plunge. If the seller is confident in the badge, he might allow you to inspect it before purchasing it. Likewise, he should have a return policy understanding the nature of the business. Glassy enamel is probably not a good thing, but I have learned from experience that camera flash is not a good thing when trying to sell these on internet. With that said, it is difficult to know if the enamel is good unless you have a chance to handle the item. I do believe these badges were enamled as well as painted, but the quality of the enamel was far better than the fake pieces of today. I have probably talked too much as it is...Good luck! __________________ "The ideal Chekist is a man with a warm heart, cool head and clean hands." "We stand for organised terror . . . Terror is an absolute necessity during times of revolution . . . The Cheka is obliged to defend the revolution and conquer the enemy even if its sword does by chance sometimes fall on the heads of the innocent." Felix Dzerzhinsky Last edited by Dzerzhinsky; 03-22-2009 at 12:11 AM.

03-22-2009, 01:07 AM	#7
Mr. Scratch New Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Eugene, Oregon Age: 55 Posts: 9	Re: Hammer & Plow Red Star Cockade Okay guys, I'll roll the dice on it. Cost is about $80 which I have no idea is fair or not, assuming it is original. I don't think I've ever seen one for sale before so I just have to guess at what is is worth. I'll send in some better pics when I have it in hand.

03-22-2009, 07:25 AM	#8
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Re: Hammer & Plow Red Star Cockade IMHO, it is way too low a price for a genuine cocade of this type. Marc

03-22-2009, 09:08 AM	#9
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 50 Posts: 2,060	Re: Hammer & Plow Red Star Cockade The price is very good for he badge (assuming real), so perhaps the seller does not know what they have. Look forward to better photos when its in. DougD

04-02-2009, 03:09 PM	#10
Mr. Scratch New Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Eugene, Oregon Age: 55 Posts: 9	Re: Hammer & Plow Red Star Cockade Okay guys, here it is. The seller bent one of the prongs back for some unknown reason, but they are both still there and it is the same cockade (all the dings and blemishes match from the previous photo). It has a pretty convincing patina (looks better in person). It also seems a bit darker in-hand, this photo was taken in direct sunlight to bring out the red. Whaddya think?

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