Red Banner. - Page 6

Ed Maier · 02-14-2003, 10:07 AM

New World,

This is a little different then most official duplicates that I have seen. In most cases they have small stamped serial numbers and a stamped "D." I've never seen the type of "D" used on your Red Banner before. I just do not know what to conclude about this piece.

A word of caution about any duplicates, there are a lot of fakes floating around as some people have added fake duplicate medals to complete groups.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this Order?

Just my opinion,
Ed

Tal Inbar · 02-14-2003, 10:55 AM

I don't like it at all. I don't like the way the old number was erased, and the engraving of the "D" is very deep.

new world · 02-15-2003, 10:22 PM

Fellows,

Thanks a lot for the advise.

I am also confused why would someone change the number in such way. I am convinced that the group this supposed belong to is not a group at all.

BTW, the so called "group" also has Red Banner 3rd award with the similar modifications to the serial number, as well as two non-altered Red Banners.

makov25 · 02-16-2003, 09:48 AM

I have seen such duplicates, many yers ago when I lived in Russia, an no one was making fakes at thet time. When Woenkomats had no bland orders to stamped serial numbers and "D" they used orders whie nambers.
If you don't wont this order, I can buy it.
Glenn

Nota Bene · 02-17-2003, 01:34 PM

New World,

I am not so sure about this piece, but I believe it may very well be an original replacement for a lost award. If you have Paul's book you can find similar awards on pages 380-381 with very similar "D"s. When they change serial numbers at the mint they often don't take great effort to conceal origianl numbers, and in this case the digits of the serial number appear to be in proper style.

I think I would go for the group if the seller offers authenticity guarantee. I believe the research would indicate if the awardee had any duplicates.

Alexei

new world · 02-17-2003, 02:00 PM

Colleagues,

Thanks a lot for your inputs.

Here's Red banner 3rd award from the same group. The group comes without any docs, so if one was to buy the group - the research needs to be done to determine whether these did belong to the same person.

Tal Inbar · 02-17-2003, 02:13 PM

I find it a little:confused: - what could the chance to get all your orders duplicated? even th RB no 3 was lost?

Strange...

Nota Bene · 02-17-2003, 02:55 PM

New World,

What worries me more on the number 3, is the front shield itself, it could be a conversion from the regular type Order.

Alexei

new world · 02-17-2003, 02:59 PM

Tal,

what's even more strange - other two Red Banners are not duplicated at all. Wouldn't it make more sense to lose the first award - even before you lose #2 and #3?

Here's the photo of the screwback offerd as part of this group:

makov25 · 02-17-2003, 07:21 PM

I seem that it makes sense, since lose the screwback more difficult then suspension one. And if you loosing suspention, you loosing all orders and medals on it at ones.

02-14-2003, 10:55 AM	#52
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	I don't like it at all. I don't like the way the old number was erased, and the engraving of the "D" is very deep. __________________ Under the banner of Marxism-Leninism, under the leadership of the Communist Party--forward to new victories in the construction of communism!

02-17-2003, 02:13 PM	#57
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	I find it a little:confused: - what could the chance to get all your orders duplicated? even th RB no 3 was lost? Strange... __________________ Under the banner of Marxism-Leninism, under the leadership of the Communist Party--forward to new victories in the construction of communism!

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02-14-2003, 10:07 AM	#51
Ed Maier Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Frederick, MD Age: 55 Posts: 203	New World, This is a little different then most official duplicates that I have seen. In most cases they have small stamped serial numbers and a stamped "D." I've never seen the type of "D" used on your Red Banner before. I just do not know what to conclude about this piece. A word of caution about any duplicates, there are a lot of fakes floating around as some people have added fake duplicate medals to complete groups. Does anyone else have an opinion on this Order? Just my opinion, Ed

02-15-2003, 10:22 PM	#53
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Fellows, Thanks a lot for the advise. I am also confused why would someone change the number in such way. I am convinced that the group this supposed belong to is not a group at all. BTW, the so called "group" also has Red Banner 3rd award with the similar modifications to the serial number, as well as two non-altered Red Banners.

02-16-2003, 09:48 AM	#54
makov25 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LYONS IL Age: 54 Posts: 21	I have seen such duplicates, many yers ago when I lived in Russia, an no one was making fakes at thet time. When Woenkomats had no bland orders to stamped serial numbers and "D" they used orders whie nambers. If you don't wont this order, I can buy it. Glenn

02-17-2003, 01:34 PM	#55
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	New World, I am not so sure about this piece, but I believe it may very well be an original replacement for a lost award. If you have Paul's book you can find similar awards on pages 380-381 with very similar "D"s. When they change serial numbers at the mint they often don't take great effort to conceal origianl numbers, and in this case the digits of the serial number appear to be in proper style. I think I would go for the group if the seller offers authenticity guarantee. I believe the research would indicate if the awardee had any duplicates. Alexei

02-17-2003, 02:55 PM	#58
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	New World, What worries me more on the number 3, is the front shield itself, it could be a conversion from the regular type Order. Alexei

02-17-2003, 07:21 PM	#60
makov25 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LYONS IL Age: 54 Posts: 21	I seem that it makes sense, since lose the screwback more difficult then suspension one. And if you loosing suspention, you loosing all orders and medals on it at ones.

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