Prices/Value Discussion.

[Lapa]

Originally Posted by devalcourt

I'm glad everything has cooled down in here. I thought for a while a revolution was at hand
I have had several discussions about the person in question, albeit there were varying opinions as to his value as a seller. The fact is, he has steadily been selling high dollar items at no reserve - you know where - and I just picked up something I wanted at way less than he had it for sale a few months ago. He's testing the waters and I think learning what the market will bear.
I knew my top price and the others who wanted the same thing knew their's (but a bit too late in the bidding). When I buy from him this way, my principles remain intact and I only put up what I'm willing to pay.
I hope he is seeing what I am and that is people are starting to get smarter (or more educated really) while at the same time they are not as quick to part with money these days.
Peace everybody

Phillip,

This is nothing new. He has been doing so for as long as I can remember.
Waaaaaay back in 1999, I bought an OG2 and a Combat Cooperation medal. Everything was fine until he went psycho with his mailing charges ($45 for 2 medals under the dubious pretext that he had to drive to the PO and therefore should be paid for his time!!!) and rather unfriendly in his tone. Needless to say, I since use his site as a reference to see what goes through his hands, but I have never bought back from him again (nor will I).

Now, from a purely marketing point of view, selling on E! with no reserve is a good way to acquire new clients; that is, if you don't antagonize and insult them from the very start

Marc

[Liam]

Thanks Sergei,
I'll keep that method in mind. I don't have any duplicates though. Think I'll post some pics here first. Where do I find upload instructions about file size limits etc.?

[Art]

All forum guideline info is within the FAQs located here:

The Soviet Military Awards Page Forum - FAQ

[Mark]

I will try to open this thread again, as this has been bugging me for a few months now. It seem's that we now face a reverse situation of the one, we were in, when this thread was open. I started to collect soviet odm's in 2004. A golden age for collecting soviet odm's I'd say. There was a lot of orders arround, prices were still so low that one could easily make a nice collection... Alexei was still in the buissness Then in a couple of years, the supply of the odm's dryed, dealers that remained were fewer and fewer, and the prices were so becoming so high, that it seems that most of us simply stopped collecting. The prices were highest in 2008 and then only in few years they started falling again. According to my observations, the fall of the prices from 2009 and untill now is about 50%... And not only that, the suply seems to be much better. The castch hovewer is, that it almost seems, that nobody actually want's all these items. I find it allmost impossible to move any of my items at all. Even if I try to sell them for half of what I payed for them (including research), there still isn't a single interested collector. Common ORB's were going for 600 $ two years ago, Nevsky's were 4000 $, Lenins were from 2000 $ and so on. These prices are now split in half, and it's still hard to sell anything, as the supply is strong and there seem to be very few people arround, who still collect this stuff. Research was very popular years back, now it seems as it has no value anymore to most people. Most collectors will rather buy a unresearched item than a researched one, for reasons, unknown to me.
Even this forum seem's rather sleepy for the past year or two. So what is your thoughts about this? Was the price increase from two years ago so dramatic, that it itself caused the collapse of this hobby, and then the fall of prices and the lack of interested collectors?

[deValcourt]

Mark, my personal opinion (and that's all it is) is that there is a combination of many factors working together here that are bringing prices on some things down to at least almost reasonable levels. I repeat - some things. Badges are coming down along with large issue items like labor medals, BMs and CSs.

One reason is the total flush that the world economy is trying to float up out of. People are not spending what they used to on "unnecessary" items. Real collectors, on the other hand, will keep looking for what they want at a price they are willing to pay, and it looks like some of those prices may be within reach someday.

Another reason for a possible price decline is the "aging out" of most collectors. The average American 17 years old and under probably never heard of the Soviet Union and hasn't the least desire to collect anything from that time and place. We were 17 and under when many of the great verbal battles were waged and remember the paranoia and fear both governments tried to instill in the people. The Soviet era (even its declining years) are part of our memories. In the future, it will take people who are genuinely interested in history to keep collecting ODMs from the Soviet Union. Sad, but true. Then again, maybe not so sad.

As Norm so ably pointed out years ago, those who are real collectors do it for the historical value, not so much for the monetary one. So a researched BM with its attendant higher price than the one that is not, will only attract people who want to know about where and when it came from, not just somebody interested in having a couple of objects that look fancy to display in a shadow box.

The fact of the matter is that prices were hyper-inflated under a false market, just like almost everything else a year or so ago. As people become more concerned about their future savings in the face of difficult economic times, they become less willing to part with extra cash.

Whether the trend will ever turn around again, I doubt it. Prices for the most scarce items will stay high as sellers continue to "feel out" the consumer market and sell what they can for what people are willing to pay. I think I'll call this the American Auto Effect.

Phillip

[Simon]

Mark,

Every collecting field goes through price bubbles. Postage stamps in the 1970's and baseball cards in the 1990's saw their heyday, only to descend into oblivion a few years after their dawn. All Russian antiques had been going up in price in 2000's thanks to the improving conditions of Russia's economy. Also, Putin's policy aimed to resurrect patriotic values and raise prestige of orders influenced the price of Soviet awards. The economic crisis reversed the trend. If you bought at the peak, you may not be able to sell your collection for as much now, but don't let current prices upset you. The bubble may have burst, but Russia's population grew in 2009, first time since early 1990's. As long as Russia has wealthy people with discretionary income, Soviet orders and medals will be worth $$$. The massive parade in honor of the 65 anniversary of the Victory will have a positive impact on popularity of Soviet combat awards. If we are to believe Russia's economists, real earnings of people in that country will continue to increase. Even in the current crisit, HSU star sold for $6000 on Ebay last week. The future of Russia is expected to be bright and so is the future of the hobby.

Simon

[Norm Braddock]

I am very surprised that Mark's items didn't sell. Great researched awards at great prices. In general, people just don't seem to get it that research costs money.

I think that while it appears that there are more awards for sale right now, most on the market are awards that people don't want. For example, awards that have been researched and found unresearchable or "modest" awards that people don't want. At least with Mr. Pavlo et al, one gets actual "naked" awards which can be researched for this first time.

In general, people got greedy when prices rose and were crazy. Some bought T2 BM's for 10 bucks at one time or were even lucky to find and buy them during the peak at great prices. Then the next thing you know, they tried to sell them at $150 and whined when nobody bought them. Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll????????????? (Btw, this has nothing to do with Mark's stuff)

[Art]

Personally speaking, prices would have to come down ALOT for me to consider actively collecting again. I doubt very much however pricing will go lower than it is today for the reasons given in others replies.

[Mark]

Sometimes we get ourselfs into a situation, when we need to sell some of our items, in order to be able to buy some other items, that are of our interest. So I put some of my collection for sale. Nothing unusual about that. I still like all of my soviet collection and would never think about selling for instance, my Lenin, Nevsky, OG2, FoN... But there always are certain items, that you like having, but still at some point they have to go. So I posted them here first, since it is my favourite forum for soviet awards, and then in two domestic forums, ebay and two other international forums. I just find it odd that I wasn't able to sell anything at all and even didn't got no inquiries through PM's. In the end I was able to sell through one of the domestic forums one documented group of 18 awards, 2 badges, 12 corresponding docs, frame and shipping for 200 $... My first asking price was 600... There were no takers for anything above 200. And we all know that research with translations alone costs 100$. The lucky buyer got everything else, that I mentioned, for 100$... All the other items are still sitting in my collection, waiting for a buyer And they are not even some low end crap, but nice wartime issue awards, with docs and research and most of them are low numbered... It wasn't even easy for me to decide to sell them. So I simply started to ask myself, what the hell is going on. That is why I reopened this thread.

[Greg Collins]

I can only speak for my own experience. The economy has gone south and, unlike all the t.v. anchors, I don't believe it's getting better- nor do I believe it has "bottomed out" as yet. I look for 2012 at the earliest. Has this stopped my collecting? No. But it has modified it. I have turned my primary attention from the highly valued items of today- mostly Soviet and Mongolian- to more affordable items I believe will have a greater value in the future, like Romanian, Hungarian and a few others. Is it a gamble? Definitely! But then I remember that I got into collecting to collect and enjoy the hobby; not to make money, although it is nice to see the value of the collection climb. I have tried selling and, well, I really suck at that- I doubt I could sell firewood to Eskimos. So, I'm a collector. Period.

Will higher prices be able to be met in the future? Maybe, but I think this is going to be a long ordeal for the planet- not just the US. And when we finally climb out of this, I doubt seriously, at least in our lifetimes, that things will return to the way they were. Just my opinion.