Collecting Advice Please

[Mozzabloke]

OK, So Im new to collecting medals and I thought I may as well make use of all your brains!

For the time being I have decided to concentrate on the 5 sided suspension medals of WW2 ie Defence, Liberation, Capture and Victory as most of these seem to be at a collectable price and this is the period that interests me the most.

1. Where do you recomend I look for medals (Im already on Ebay)

2 . Is there a definative website or book I can buy showing me what to watch out for in the way of fakes?

3. what do you all consider to be (ball park) reasonable prices for medals of this type & period ie A=? C=? R1=? R2=? and so on

And any other advice is welcome!


Thanks

Mark (MozzaBloke)

[Ed_Haynes]

My advice:

1) I am fairly new to "things Soviet" -- though not to "things phaleristic" -- so let me keep this general....

2) For the first two years of collecting, spend most of your budget ("budget"? "budget"! ha ha ha!!) on books and other reference sources. Read them, memorize them, worship them. And cross-check what you learn from them against this forum. We all learn daily.

3) Find reliable dealers -- and I do not include eBay in this catagory -- and develop relationships with them. All collectors have their personal preferences in this regard.

4) Realize: You'll find your Defence of Moscow medal anytime. So be on the lookout for the big-ticket, once-in-a-lifetime items. They may eat your remaining budget, but (a) will you ever see them again and (b) will you regret passing them up if you don't get them when they are available? And in this regard I mean especially groups.

Just my two kopecks worth,

Ed

[Art]

Mozzabloke,

Without "tooting our own horn" to much, you can find all the information you are looking for right here. The main website to this forum:

website

Is dedicated to describing and showing images of all the awards. Within the forum ( where you are at now ) we talk about fakes ( go to the Fake Alert! forum ) pricing ( any of the forums, depending on what you are asking about ) and rarity ( same, just pick the forum and read and post ).

I would suggest looking through the forum really well ( use the search feature ) then as Ed mentions, invest in at least one good reference book. I would suggest McDaniels "The Comprehensive Guide to Soviet Orders and Medals". BTW, I allow members to sell reference materials within the forum. Check in the Reference Materials For Sale section. The prices there are really very good. I purchased a set of "Hero" books and Kutsenko's "Orders of the Soviet Republics" from Eugene. Both are invaluable. However, the book you really need as a beginner is McDaniels book. We all refer to it either when talking to each other, or within the forum.

Regarding EBay, It's O.K., but be careful. Many of us have been burned by unscrupulous individuals there. If you don't know what guys are honest and who is not, I would wait until you are a little educated as far as prices and rarity go. If you see an Order of Lenin being sold for $75, chances are it's a fake. If you see a Medal for Veteran of Labor being sold for $75, someone is trying to rip someone off.

Happy Collecting!

Art

[Mozzabloke]

Thanks for the advice all, I will definately be buying the McDaniels guide.

It's good to know that there are people out there who are willing to point you in the right direction.

Thanks again!

Mark

(MozzaBloke)

[Kjetil Kvist]

Hi Mark,

I have just re-started my soviet collection and have some of the same questions like you. Buy the book befor the medal, someone said to me. I would buy the Comprehensive guide to soviet orders and medals, its the best reference I have seen on any subject connected to modern numismatics. I would advice you to buy a beatiful pair of books: Orders and medals of the USSR 1918-1991 by Stanislavovich and Valentinovich. Both reference books have many of the same information, but the latter set also have accurate information about weight of the order/medal.

When it comes to orders and medals I would go for what makes soviet orders and medals quite unique: The possibility to get them researched and get the real story behind every award.

There is many reasonably priced soviet orders and medals that can be researched - and you will get real good stories about really brave men and women. Take the Order of the Red Banner - a nice order, but not my favourite - you will get these for a few dollars. Or the Order of the Red Star - if you find early specimens you will find stories about battlefield glory (not that none of the later specimens also have stories to tell, but they where often given for long service). Or the Order of Glory - one of my favourites, and I am not alone in that regard - always stories of excellent bravery in face of the enemy. The best part is that you often get this order for less than $30. Or the strange Order of the Patriotic War 1st class that will cost you seldom more than $200 - but is part made of gold and therefore have a nice ring to it.

But I would read the reference books first. And browse the various super dealer sites. You will get a picture of what the market is like and what you should pay for various items.

Always have the eye open for bargains - but focus on a special area.

If you have unlimited funds you can of course have the freedom to collect it all...

[scook17]

Art,

I noticed you listed 'Pilot-Cosmonaut of the USSR' and 'Distinguished Military Pilot of the USSR' and the other ones as R7. These are not covered in Paul's book, so how did you rate these medals?

I'm also curious why you don't list the Medals (Titles) such as “People’s Artist of the USSR” or the various prize medals etc? Your site provides a nice reference for all us collectors, but it would be nice to see some of this other stuff added, and a rarity assigned to it.

Kind Regards,
Shane Cook.

[Art]

Shane,

When I originally laid out the website ( around 10 years ago! ) there was a real shortage on good reference materials. What you see listed on the site is an adaptation from a US Defense Intelligence Agency publication titled "Handbook on the Soviet Armed Forces". This lists all of the military and labor associated awards, and includes how they were awarded. It is essentially the same as McDaniels list, however the titles for pilot-cosmonaut, etc.. are not in his book. I don't know why he didn't include them. At that time, I had heard of the Stalin prize, Lenin prize, etc, but decided not to include them because I really didn't have any information on them. At this time, I would have to recode all the links on my site to include these. Sorry, that's to big of a job for me to tackle at the moment. If you guys want to put together something, I'd be happy to include it in a digest article.

The rarity rating for the more arcane title medals is based on how I've seen them come in and out of the collecting market in the last 10 years. They are VERY rare, much rarer than the Gold Star medals for Hero of the Soviet Union. The only ones you really see for sale nowadays are fakes, and not very good ones at that.


Art

[scook17]

Art,

This is interesting. Where did you get the 'Handbook on the Soviet Armed Forces' from? I'd be interested in obtaining a copy.

Kind Regards,
Shane Cook.

[Tal Inbar]

Yes, Art,

Please tell about this book in the reference section!

Tal

[Art]

This "book" was purchased by me from someone off of UseNet along time ago. Actually it is a copy of the handbook, consisting of a few hundred 8 1/2" x 11" photocopied pages, hole-punched and inserted into a 3-ring binder. The publication date is February 1978.

I've seen the actual handbook as well as photocopies of it pop up on EBay every once in awhile. It is a typical DIA publication with typical DIA marks, logos, etc..It is a great reference book and is broken down into the following chapters:

1. Organization
2. The Warsaw Pact
3. Doctrine and Strategy
4. Personnel
5. Training
6. Logistics
7.Ground Forces
8. Naval Forces
9. Air Force
10. Air Defense Forces
11. Strategic Rocket Forces
12. Militarized Security Forces
13. Quasi-Military Organizations
14. Uniforms and Insignia
15. Awards and Decorations

Packed with illustrations, but the photocopy quality of the photos in my copy are poor. I'll post a copy of this message in the reference section.

Art