Order Booklets - Page 5

slava1stclass · 01-30-2003, 03:26 PM

As someone who speaks Russian, knight is an acceptable translation of the word "Kavaler" from Russian to English. In the strictest sense of translation from the Russian, however, "Kavaler" means "Holder" or someone who possesses an award/decoration. Therefore, any Red Army soldier or officer who earned an order, even if it was only the lowest class of the order, was considered a "Kavaler" of that order.
Used in a military context, I personally find the word knight much more appropriate than cavalier and therefore it's what I use.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Nota Bene · 01-30-2003, 05:21 PM

Any good translator should take into account not only the meaning of the term, but also the tradition, customary usage, as well as the historic context. For this reason I believe that the term "knight" is totally unacceptable when referring to the Soviet awards. Just my opinion.

Alexei

charlet · 03-29-2003, 10:01 AM

Hi gentlemen, I have a little doubt about a set proposed to me.
This is stuff sold by a French collector selling all, this stuff is of 1992-1994. Very reliable. Really this is santa claus.
One of these sets is a order of glory 3rd, very nice, heavy patina, 100% good, nr 7995xx approx.
The order book is classic, a type 5, goznak 1967, writing nice, order given in 1980, name of the order stamped, and booklet nr "I (latin) 550xxx.
For me all is good, but...the hand writing is done with blue ballpoint ink. I'm very cautious about ballpoint writing, is this a faking, or it is possible for common orders of the 80'
(for me black china ink is the major rule).

thanks by advance, sebastien

Nota Bene · 04-09-2003, 04:20 PM

Sebastien,

The Order is OK, and I am inclined to believe that the booklet is genuine. Still the only way to be absolutely sure is to have it researched.

Alexei

charlet · 04-10-2003, 05:49 AM

thanks Alexei! I'll buy this group to my friend at the end of the month...
Shawn, ball-point pen is rather common on large-scale diffused docs like booklet for labor vet, jubilee medals docs. But you say it can be normal and under tolerance for the begenning 80?

Ed_Haynes · 04-10-2003, 05:57 AM

As the Order of Glory was awarded for Afghanistan, could this be what we are seeing here? The world didn't end in 1945.

If an Afghan War award, some would view it as FAR more interesting than just another GPW award.

Ed Haynes

charlet · 04-10-2003, 06:17 AM

I didn't think to this possibility Ed; I thought without doing mistakes the order of glory knew a "decadence" in the 50-60', being decerned for merit service in VS, didn't it?
(of course it was too decerned for feats of war with much late, as a regulation - for ex I got a GPW2 given in 1976 for 1944 events)

An Afghan award would be of the greatest interest!

sebastien

Nota Bene · 04-10-2003, 06:34 PM

Ed,

It could very well be a late WWII award. In many cases they mention the number of the original commendation and date, but not always.

Alexei

charlet · 04-10-2003, 07:09 PM

here's an example from my collection:

Nota Bene · 04-11-2003, 06:20 PM

Here's another one from 1985, also written in ball-point pen.

Alexei

01-30-2003, 03:26 PM	#41
slava1stclass Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 838	As someone who speaks Russian, knight is an acceptable translation of the word "Kavaler" from Russian to English. In the strictest sense of translation from the Russian, however, "Kavaler" means "Holder" or someone who possesses an award/decoration. Therefore, any Red Army soldier or officer who earned an order, even if it was only the lowest class of the order, was considered a "Kavaler" of that order. Used in a military context, I personally find the word knight much more appropriate than cavalier and therefore it's what I use. Regards, slava1stclass Last edited by slava1stclass; 01-30-2003 at 04:09 PM.

04-10-2003, 05:49 AM	#45
charlet Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Age: 49 Posts: 791	thanks Alexei! I'll buy this group to my friend at the end of the month... Shawn, ball-point pen is rather common on large-scale diffused docs like booklet for labor vet, jubilee medals docs. But you say it can be normal and under tolerance for the begenning 80? __________________ Sebastien "a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism" (a well-known german bearbed)

04-10-2003, 06:17 AM	#47
charlet Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Age: 49 Posts: 791	I didn't think to this possibility Ed; I thought without doing mistakes the order of glory knew a "decadence" in the 50-60', being decerned for merit service in VS, didn't it? (of course it was too decerned for feats of war with much late, as a regulation - for ex I got a GPW2 given in 1976 for 1944 events) An Afghan award would be of the greatest interest! sebastien __________________ Sebastien "a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism" (a well-known german bearbed)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Mongolian Booklets.	vatjan	Mongolian Paper Items	13	05-07-2005 09:30 AM

01-30-2003, 05:21 PM	#42
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Any good translator should take into account not only the meaning of the term, but also the tradition, customary usage, as well as the historic context. For this reason I believe that the term "knight" is totally unacceptable when referring to the Soviet awards. Just my opinion. Alexei

04-09-2003, 04:20 PM	#44
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Sebastien, The Order is OK, and I am inclined to believe that the booklet is genuine. Still the only way to be absolutely sure is to have it researched. Alexei

04-10-2003, 05:57 AM	#46
Ed_Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Earth, USA, SC Posts: 123	As the Order of Glory was awarded for Afghanistan, could this be what we are seeing here? The world didn't end in 1945. If an Afghan War award, some would view it as FAR more interesting than just another GPW award. Ed Haynes

04-10-2003, 06:34 PM	#48
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Ed, It could very well be a late WWII award. In many cases they mention the number of the original commendation and date, but not always. Alexei

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)