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General And Slightly Off Topic Talk Forum for exchanging ideas and talking about general issues without straying too far off topic.

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Old 11-04-2003, 06:44 AM   #211
new world
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Lenin Gold Head - for $6900 !!!

This one is for sale by a major Russian dealer:

"Order of Lenin, Type 2 "goldhead", #1194, circa 1935.

Solid 18 K gold, enamel. Comes with McDaniel certificate of authenticity. Enamel replacement on the star and on tiny portion of the banner. Light wear and scratches to the center medallion, but details of the face and ears of wheat are very well preserved. Very fine coverall.

Condition rating by McDaniel is 7 out of 10 – rather high for a rare decoration of this vintage. Comes with original silver screw plate.

$6,900.00"

WOW!!!! Such high price with resored enamel and not top condition...
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Old 11-04-2003, 02:27 PM   #212
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William,

I think that the price was recently raised... I remember seeing this piece recently with a different price tag...

But yeah... WoW.

Eric
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Old 11-04-2003, 02:38 PM   #213
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This Lenin was not at the show, if that is what you mean, Eric. However, the other one was, similar in condition, and priced about half of this ones' price... :-(
However, it's price today is adjusted for the future, that's for sure... partially because the dealer's logic is based on speculation that a new book by Durov should be coming out shortly, possibly this month, which is dealing only with Orders of Lenin - it will focus collectors attention on Lenins, earlier is rarer, of course, demand will rise, supply is very very limited, so the price will jump, as well... I'd say, hold your breath for another 6 months, and you would wish that you bought this one, when you had a chance...:-)
Personally, even though I can understand and accept the prices (considering the humane and historical significance of what we collect), I feel bad when they jump like that - gold head was only discovered in 1993-94 as a separate type, the price back then was around 2K, and stayed like that for a few years...
Happy collecting!

Alex.
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Old 11-04-2003, 11:49 PM   #214
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When I see price increases like that, I start thinking that my Soviet collection isn't going to get much bigger. I'm already starting to get nostalgic for prices from only six months ago. I wonder where it will end.

On the other hand, it's good for us to show prices like that to our wives to show them we weren't crazy after all to pay what we paid for what we have in our collections.
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Old 11-06-2003, 10:37 PM   #215
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Not a Soviet award, but still good illustration for the militaria medals' price dynamics:

Victoria Cross (VC) is the top award of British Empire, comparable with Hero SU title.

The VC was established in 1856 and has only been awarded about 1300 times. Since the end of WWII the award has only been given 11 times, last awards were during the Falklands War in 1982.

Yesterday Spinks auction house in London sold a VC group for £178,250, which is equivalent of almost $300,000!!!

The previous sale ov VC was for £138,000.

As I see Soviet awards are not wuite there yet

William

PS:
VC is the first award on the left in the photo attached.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg vcgroup.jpg (26.5 KB, 214 views)
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Old 11-15-2003, 05:16 PM   #216
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Stolen awards and 1998 market prices

Cannot resist to post this article dated Nov. 1998 Sorry for the length).

Interesting to notice that already in 1967 (!!), the Ministry of Culture instructed all museums to display only models of the awards, and keep the actual orders and medals in special depositories.

And for the fun, the market value of the Order of Victory !!!

Article published in Moscow News, on November 19, 1998 (!!)

STOLEN VALOR by Yevgeni Sergeyev

"Military regalia has been disappearing from museum display cases for some 30 years, often reappearing in antiquarians' collections abroad. The first time law enforcement agencies encountered the problem of major thefts of orders and medals was in 1967, when some 10 Marshal Timoshenko awards were stolen from the Museum of the Revolution.
During the day, a Moscow college student hid behind a column inside the museum, and later that night he broke into one of the display cases and stole the collection of the famous military commander's regalia. The story caused a huge sensation in the higher echelons of power, and some of the best investigators from the Moscow Criminal Investigations Department (MUR) were enlisted in a search that ended two days later with the arrest of the thief. The student was nabbed at a Moscow market just as he was trying to sell the goods.
As a result of this incident, in the same year the Ministry of Culture instructed all museums to display only models of the awards, and keep the actual orders and medals in special depositories.

Mints began producing high-class fakes made of aluminum, a special monetary alloy (zinc and tin) and bronze, which did indeed help save the collections. One former head of the Ministry of Culture recounted how in 1986, during the Ferghana exhibition "We are Soviet People," thieves stole all of the 40-odd duplicates on display.
The awards were replaced in only a few weeks, and the exhibition continued its tour throughout the country.

In Soviet times, museum collections of orders and medals were
replenished by emigrants and deceased military bosses. According to the rules that existed back then, after an important general died, all of his awards were given over to the museums. People who emigrated from the Soviet Union also had to leave their awards behind in the country. But with the dawn of perestroika, many relatives of high-ranking figures categorically refused to give the awards over to the museums for free, and most of them ended up going to private collectors. In 1985, the son of a famous general who fought in World War II offered to sell his father's orders and medals to the Museum of the Revolution for 5,000 rubles. But the museum couldn't come up with that much money, so, according to some sources, almost all of the awards ended up going to antique collectors.

But by no means did all of the regalia wind up in collectors' hands
"voluntarily." According to investigators, in the early 1980s,
several gangs of thieves appeared in Russia, plundering the awards of the generals and their families. Very often their actions
involved bloodshed, one of the most notorious incidents being the murder of Admiral Kholostyakov in Moscow. It all started when a young married couple managed to worm its way into the admiral's confidence: Having introduced themselves as museum workers, they managed to win the admiral's favor and became frequent guests at his apartment. This friendship ended with the criminals hacking the old man to death with an ax and stealing all of his awards.
The couple was soon arrested by MUR investigators. The Ministry
of Culture's subsequent recommendation to all military bosses and their relatives not to let people introducing themselves as
museum workers into their homes did little to save the regalia
owners, many of whom were tricked out of their valuable awards by people passing themselves off as directors of all kinds of
exhibitions.

One of the most able museum fraudsters is considered to be a man named Alexander Karmanov. Karmanov began his criminal activity in the late 1980s. Back then, he succeeded in cheating several families of famous military bosses out of their awards in one fell swoop. He would introduce himself as an employee of a major museum and request rarities for his exhibitions. In this way, he managed to get his hands on more than 90 orders and medals, including the awards of Marshal Kozhedub, General Luchinsky and Admiral Gorshkov.
It was only after the regalia was discovered in the collection of
a famous American antique collector, who had asked the relatives
to send him a full-length photograph of Marshal Kozhedub in uniform wearing all the regalia, that the people realized that they had been cheated. Enraged, the relatives contacted the police. Karmanov was sentenced to three years in jail, but in 1997 he was released on an amnesty.

Upon his release, the swindler immediately registered a "Museum
of Military History" under his wife's name, and, after fabricating
some identification stating that he was the director of the
museum, once again began paying visits to the families of military
bosses. With his air of respectability, Karmanov would tell them
that he was organizing an exhibition on Poklonnaya Gora dedicated to the undeservedly forgotten heroes of the country, and asked the people to give some sort of rare items for the exposition. It wasn't long before the swindler managed to gain the trust of the families of people like Brezhnev, Budyonny and Zhukov. He was rearrested last March and investigators discovered over a dozen rare awards in his possession, including five Hero of the Soviet Union Stars that once belonged to Brezhnev, an Order of Bogdan Khmelnitsky and an Order of Nakhimov. During questioning, Karmanov admitted that he had been planning to send all of the awards abroad.

In 1996, officials from the 9th division of the MUR solved yet
another major regalia-related crime. In 1995, collector Mikhail
Selivanov had over 100 awards, estimated at $ 3 million, stolen
from his apartment. The collection included badges for Valiant
Military Service in the Russian Army dating from the 17th to the
early 20th centuries and the Soviet era, the most valuable being
the Orders of Bogdan Khmelnitsky, Ushakov, Kutuzov, an Order of
World War II, 1st Class, and one of the earliest Orders of the Red Banner of Combat. The stolen regalia was later discovered in the possession of a resident of the Tula region. As in the case with Karmanov, the criminal had been planning to sell the collection to the West. He was arrested just as he was negotiating with a foreign diplomat.

The foreign antique market is the main buyer of Soviet orders
and medals. Right now, the cheapest of the most valuable awards - a medal commemorating the 20th anniversary of the Workers' and Peasants' Red Army - costs from $ 3,000 to $ 5,000, and the most expensive - the Order of Victory, decorated with rubies and diamonds - sells for up to $ 2 million at auctions.

MN FILE Military regalia (both from the tsarist and Soviet eras)
has long become a regular commodity on the markets. The awards are bought, sold and traded by people who appreciate these types of rarities. The value of the orders and medals varies
depending on the number of surviving specimens and the amount
of precious metals and stones in them.

Approximate prices for Soviet-era medals and orders are as follows:

Order of Victory - $ 2 million
Order of Ushakov, 1st Class - $ 25,000
Order of Nakhimov, 1st Class - $ 10,000
Order of Kutuzov, 1st Class - $ 6,000-$ 8,000
Orders of Glory - $ 7,500
Gold Star of a Hero of the Soviet Union - $ 650-$ 2,500
Order of Lenin - $ 700-$ 900
Order of World War II, 1st Class - $ 200
Order of the Red Star - $ 100."

Ch.

Last edited by Christophe; 11-15-2003 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 11-22-2003, 05:53 AM   #217
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great aritle! though $100 for a red star!! il sell mine only $50!!!
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Old 11-22-2003, 05:55 AM   #218
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great aritle! though $100 for a red star!! il sell mine for only $50!!!
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Old 01-29-2004, 12:27 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scook17
... There are not that many shops here you can go to, to buy Russian medals. I live near London, and know of only two such shops. The choice is therefore also somewhat limited.

BTW, if anyone knows of any shops here in the UK that sell Russian medals/orders, please email or PM me. Thanks.

Kind Regards,
Shane Cook.
Gents,

Anyone has info on places to shop for Soviet and foreign awards in London? Planning to be there next seek - why not stop by and check the inventory.

Shane?

Best regards,
William
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Old 01-31-2004, 06:41 AM   #220
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Sold !

Quote:
Originally Posted by new world
This one is for sale by a major Russian dealer:

"Order of Lenin, Type 2 "goldhead", #1194, circa 1935.
$6,900.00"
This "Gold-head" lenin has recently disappeared from the dealer's website. Has anyone info about the final price achieved ? (Maybe the new owner is one of you ?? ).

Cheers.

Ch.
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