Doubt.

Ruiz · 04-13-2012, 12:39 PM

Hello, I would like to know which are the equivalent of the German decorations over the Soviet Union.
Iron Cross First and Second Class, Military Merit, German Cross ....

For example:

Iron Cross First Class / Great Patriotic War First Class.???

Best regards.

***CtahhR*** · 04-13-2012, 12:44 PM

This is somewhat like asking to equate the colour Red with the sensation of wetness.

medals73 · 04-13-2012, 01:37 PM

These comparisons almost never work, especially if you are merging two very different political/social systems. It is easier to look a specific cases of what a particular award was given for (and keep in mind that these changed over time). This is rather easy for Soviet awards, less so for for those Hitlerite things.

Ruiz · 04-13-2012, 02:18 PM

The reason of this question is because many collectors of German militaria tend to think that the Soviets gave awards in large quantities, and I think quite the opposite, they gave less decorations have a vastly larger army.

Best regards.

medals73 · 04-13-2012, 02:31 PM

It would be interesting to do a "number of each decoration per 1000 men in uniform" computation, year by year, for each country in WWII. It would be a major research project and perhaps would not even be possible. I have seen some numbers for Canada, with comparative WWI figures.

***CtahhR*** · 04-13-2012, 02:36 PM

It is true that some Greater German awards were awarded only once but that does not make them "elite" or the such.

There could be an absolutely endless debate conducting comparisons of warring nations but their is far more personal agendas than facts aired during such debates.

All wars are very different for all nations participating in them. The number of awards and also their "purpose" will vary throughout the entire spectrum.

In a purely non-political and non-campaign award for reaching a quota (be it production or kills) a comparison may well be able to be conducted in a rational fashion. These may be items such as marksmanship awards or long service awards.

The Soviets issued long service awards for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 etc years service. The Greater Germans did not mark service in 5 year periods, they marked 4, 12 and 25.

Comparison made?

RedMaestro2 · 04-13-2012, 02:57 PM

I just tried running some very imprecise numbers in a very imprecise method to make a very imprecise comparison.

The very imprecise result:

Soviet - "Commander" orders, OPW, OG, ORB, ORS, OL, BM, CMM, Ushakov/Nakhimov medals, Partisan medals:
12,500,000 awards

German - Knight's cross, German cross, Iron Cross, War Merit Cross and medal:
18,700,000 awards

Obviously this isn't a good comparison. But maybe it's enough to suggest Ruiz's hypothesis has merit.

Alex

EricFG · 04-13-2012, 08:56 PM

I remember listing the TR award numbers in a thread I did about the Soviet awards numbers. Lemme go see if I can find the link.

Here it is: http://soviet-awards.com/forum/sovie...html#post92915

04-13-2012, 12:39 PM	#1
Ruiz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spain Age: 50 Posts: 218	Doubt. Hello, I would like to know which are the equivalent of the German decorations over the Soviet Union. Iron Cross First and Second Class, Military Merit, German Cross .... For example: Iron Cross First Class / Great Patriotic War First Class.??? Best regards. __________________ Only he is lost who gives himself up for lost.

04-13-2012, 12:44 PM	#2
*CtahhR* Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Deep In The Archives. Age: 17 Posts: 12,074	Re: Doubt. This is somewhat like asking to equate the colour Red with the sensation of wetness. __________________ "Signed with his own rubber stamp"

04-13-2012, 01:37 PM	#3
medals73 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Earth, most of the time Posts: 2,016	Re: Doubt. These comparisons almost never work, especially if you are merging two very different political/social systems. It is easier to look a specific cases of what a particular award was given for (and keep in mind that these changed over time). This is rather easy for Soviet awards, less so for for those Hitlerite things.

04-13-2012, 02:18 PM	#4
Ruiz Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Spain Age: 50 Posts: 218	Re: Doubt. The reason of this question is because many collectors of German militaria tend to think that the Soviets gave awards in large quantities, and I think quite the opposite, they gave less decorations have a vastly larger army. Best regards. __________________ Only he is lost who gives himself up for lost.

04-13-2012, 02:31 PM	#5
medals73 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Earth, most of the time Posts: 2,016	Re: Doubt. It would be interesting to do a "number of each decoration per 1000 men in uniform" computation, year by year, for each country in WWII. It would be a major research project and perhaps would not even be possible. I have seen some numbers for Canada, with comparative WWI figures.

04-13-2012, 02:36 PM	#6
*CtahhR* Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Deep In The Archives. Age: 17 Posts: 12,074	Re: Doubt. It is true that some Greater German awards were awarded only once but that does not make them "elite" or the such. There could be an absolutely endless debate conducting comparisons of warring nations but their is far more personal agendas than facts aired during such debates. All wars are very different for all nations participating in them. The number of awards and also their "purpose" will vary throughout the entire spectrum. In a purely non-political and non-campaign award for reaching a quota (be it production or kills) a comparison may well be able to be conducted in a rational fashion. These may be items such as marksmanship awards or long service awards. The Soviets issued long service awards for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 etc years service. The Greater Germans did not mark service in 5 year periods, they marked 4, 12 and 25. Comparison made? __________________ "Signed with his own rubber stamp"

04-13-2012, 02:57 PM	#7
RedMaestro2 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 501	Re: Doubt. I just tried running some very imprecise numbers in a very imprecise method to make a very imprecise comparison. The very imprecise result: Soviet - "Commander" orders, OPW, OG, ORB, ORS, OL, BM, CMM, Ushakov/Nakhimov medals, Partisan medals: 12,500,000 awards German - Knight's cross, German cross, Iron Cross, War Merit Cross and medal: 18,700,000 awards Obviously this isn't a good comparison. But maybe it's enough to suggest Ruiz's hypothesis has merit. Alex

04-13-2012, 08:56 PM	#8
EricFG Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Naples, Florida, USA Age: 59 Posts: 1,496	Re: Doubt. I remember listing the TR award numbers in a thread I did about the Soviet awards numbers. Lemme go see if I can find the link. Here it is: http://soviet-awards.com/forum/sovie...html#post92915 __________________ "patina imparts character" - PJS A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'

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