Fake CheKa/NKVD/KGB Documents - Page 2

Nota Bene · 08-21-2002, 07:22 PM

Another one, also for good service.

Nota Bene · 08-21-2002, 07:28 PM

Yet another one. Also no serial number.

Nota Bene · 08-21-2002, 07:31 PM

I can't say for sure that this one is a fake, but they are currently faked, and those fakes are very good.

Tal Inbar · 08-22-2002, 04:46 PM

Another picture of "KGB ID No. 007"

Nota Bene · 08-22-2002, 08:08 PM

Tal,

Right now eBay is just flooded with those fakes, and some of them actually sell for good money :(

Alexei

Tal Inbar · 08-23-2002, 08:48 AM

-

Nota Bene · 08-23-2002, 02:53 PM

Tal,

Can't really say anything about this one, except that the hand-writting is very similar to one of the previous IDs posted here.

Alexei

Here's another fake from the same seller:

otlichnik · 08-26-2002, 03:54 AM

Greetings all.

A few comments on the IDs. I agree that the KGB ID is nothing but a cheap joke piece. The KGB Distinguished service badge award books are also bad copies of very poor quality.

However, strangely enough, most of the rest of this dealer's stuff appears genuine. I have picked up a few things from them - with a return option. They were good - proper paper, realistic aging, proper data and photos, etc. I even got one of the numberless NKVD docs - for cheap. I am also quite sure it is genuine or it is the best fake ever. It is very had to age a paper doc in a realistic manner - no ageing or heavy aging everywhere is easy. But to have the edges and spine worn realisticly, some age/stains but not overall, etc. is quite hard. The writting on these genuine ones is all different (and as an aside I did have formal training many years ago in handwriting analysis and fraudulent document detection in a course for law enforcement investigators).

Now some are coming out from the same oblast or krai office with serial numbers very close - that does not bother me as someone obviously has grabbed a bunch from a state file. These things were all supposed to be returned after use and most come from state files.

Even the lack of serial number does not bother me too much. I agree it makes faking a pair convenient and that the KGB ones are fake and that some are suspicious. But I have seen two now in person that were bang on. They all come from post-war issue awards and I think (just my theory) that they come from a state file of unissued docs - that is that in the end they were issued other badge or medals instead.

As a parallel I have seen Polish award docs (for WWII medals) for sale from a Soviet state file - they were all name and signed but unissued for various reasons - person dies, person not found, person arrested, etc. In this case the reasons were all written on the docs in pencil.

Who knows.

Shawn

otlichnik · 08-26-2002, 04:11 AM

Tal,

I replied on some of this under the Fakes forum. There is nothing inherently wrong in any of these IDs. They all look ok. Of course, I would demand a return option and give them the "finger" test before deciding to keep them. They look well aged though. If I was oing to go to a lot of work to fake it I would do SMERSH or KGB or something like that and get $200+ not around $50.

Shawn

PS Sadly I think 90 of SMERSH docs out there are fake.

Nota Bene · 08-26-2002, 11:12 AM

Shawn,

When you have a moment could you please post here the good ones. I'd really appreciate it.

Alexei

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08-22-2002, 08:08 PM	#15
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Tal, Right now eBay is just flooded with those fakes, and some of them actually sell for good money :( Alexei

08-26-2002, 03:54 AM	#18
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	Greetings all. A few comments on the IDs. I agree that the KGB ID is nothing but a cheap joke piece. The KGB Distinguished service badge award books are also bad copies of very poor quality. However, strangely enough, most of the rest of this dealer's stuff appears genuine. I have picked up a few things from them - with a return option. They were good - proper paper, realistic aging, proper data and photos, etc. I even got one of the numberless NKVD docs - for cheap. I am also quite sure it is genuine or it is the best fake ever. It is very had to age a paper doc in a realistic manner - no ageing or heavy aging everywhere is easy. But to have the edges and spine worn realisticly, some age/stains but not overall, etc. is quite hard. The writting on these genuine ones is all different (and as an aside I did have formal training many years ago in handwriting analysis and fraudulent document detection in a course for law enforcement investigators). Now some are coming out from the same oblast or krai office with serial numbers very close - that does not bother me as someone obviously has grabbed a bunch from a state file. These things were all supposed to be returned after use and most come from state files. Even the lack of serial number does not bother me too much. I agree it makes faking a pair convenient and that the KGB ones are fake and that some are suspicious. But I have seen two now in person that were bang on. They all come from post-war issue awards and I think (just my theory) that they come from a state file of unissued docs - that is that in the end they were issued other badge or medals instead. As a parallel I have seen Polish award docs (for WWII medals) for sale from a Soviet state file - they were all name and signed but unissued for various reasons - person dies, person not found, person arrested, etc. In this case the reasons were all written on the docs in pencil. Who knows. Shawn

08-26-2002, 04:11 AM	#19
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	Tal, I replied on some of this under the Fakes forum. There is nothing inherently wrong in any of these IDs. They all look ok. Of course, I would demand a return option and give them the "finger" test before deciding to keep them. They look well aged though. If I was oing to go to a lot of work to fake it I would do SMERSH or KGB or something like that and get $200+ not around $50. Shawn PS Sadly I think 90 of SMERSH docs out there are fake.

08-26-2002, 11:12 AM	#20
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Shawn, When you have a moment could you please post here the good ones. I'd really appreciate it. Alexei

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