Laureate Of The State Prize Of The U.S.S.R.

[Eugene]

Bill,
I don't know why it wasn't the rule. Off course, documents and medals were prenumbered. Maybe, because these medals were awarded by special commette and not by Supreme Soviete, they didn't follow procedure to match document and medal. From my experience, persentage of matching sets is very low. I realize, some of the sets could be made up, but if you see over 90% unmatching sets, such large number can not be made up.
It's nut just my luck that I didn't observe so many matching sets. Out of curiousity, I've asked two of the biggest suppliers of such awards on American market. Even so many dozens of such awards past hands of each of them, number of matching numbers was extremely low(less than Tal observed alone). It's not just my bad luck.
And why 1st price should differ from 2nd, 3rd or Lenin prize? Some of them matching as well but mostly they don't.
However, my point was that unmatching serial numbers and mint condition is not a cretaria of fake set.
Matching number could be observed in all rangers of medals, but for the first prize they are usially seen for later issued with s/n > 20000.
Below is an image of the group, that came to me directly form the widow of recepient. I apologize for taking some space, but it's an interesting set.
The recepient was documentary movie maker and has got the Stalin prize for film "Free China". He got Chinese order as well.
His both state prizes are reissues for Stalin prize. The document for one Stalin prize survived. Even the medals were awarded in 1962 they are in mint condition. Serial numbers of medals are 0244, 0245, numbers on State prize documents are 0971, 0972.
I can tell exatly how many matching sets got recepients, but my estimations based on my experience and data from the biggest suppliers, would be definately less then 20%, more likely like less than 10%.

[Bill Dienna]

Eugene...
Thanks so much for both the anecdotal information, and the scan of the splendid group. That is a great assemblage of awards and documentary material.

I suppose that what I find somewhat confusing about this subject is this:

The recipient of a State Prize would receive a large, formal award document as well as the small award certificate. My understanding of the function of the small document is that it was meant to be carried on the person, so that the recipient could prove that he or she was entitled to wear the Prize medal, and that they were entitled to the rights and priveleges of a recipient of a State Prize.

Now, of course, if they were stopped by someone in authority, I would have thought that the primary means to prove that the State Prize medal that they were wearing (on those occasions when they were actually wearing it) was in fact theirs, would have been for the number on the medal to match the number on the certificate.

So it may be that I am overemphasizing the importance of the Identification book or its role in this respect.

One thing I would be curious about, though, is the number that was recorded in the Order Book for a State Prize recipient who had other awards. I would presume that if he received a medal and certificate where the numbers did not match, they would record the medal number in his Order book with other award he had received.

[charlet]

I think both parts presented interesting arguments...and Alexei, who is concerned about the tone of the debate, I think it is like the cosmonaut medal, the question stands opened, we must wait for more datas to come. Tal has seen an intesresting random sample of 15 medals, Eugene has info sources from big dealers, with an estimated average statistic. That' s a pity there were no statistics taken! but it can sometimes be delicate to get out his booklet and a pen and copy all numbers...
I've started a list of state prize numbers, and being a small collector I've gathered from docs only 3 samples...so impossible to build a conclusion from this. If we gather stats like with orders we could make this debate evolve.

[Bill Dienna]

Just a minor point of clarification...I'm not actually arguing for one interpretation or another, myself.

I'm just trying to figure out how the system worked!

Personally, I'm grateful for the all of the information that has been shared from all of the members, since it adds to our collective knowledge, and allows for analysis and discussion.

It occurs to me that maybe what I will do is simply try writing to the office that is resposible for physically issuing the State awards to see if they can shed any light on the subject.

[charlet]

Bill, you said: "Just a minor point of clarification...I'm not actually arguing for one interpretation or another, myself.

I'm just trying to figure out how the system worked!"

I was thinking exactly the same thing as you! sorry not to have been clear enough.

regards, sebastien

[new world]

Another State Prize set:

Diploma for the State Prize - serial numbers don't match:

[Tal Inbar]

Strange patina on this state prize. Looks almost like it is not made of gold!

[Nota Bene]

Tal,

I think it may be just the light.

Alexei

[scook17]

Does anyone know the weight of the gold used in the two first class state prize medals, the new RSFSR one, and the lenin one? I believe all of these are made from 23K solid gold? Does anyone know if the RSFSR is still being issued or if it was replaced by something else? Thanks.

Kind Regards,
Shane Cook.

[new world]

Interesting info provided by one of the major dealers on his site:

"The State Prize was established in 1962 during “de-Stalinization” process and the medal was initially intended as a replacement for all surviving recipients of the earlier Stalin Prizes.

From that point on, these individuals were always referred to in Soviet sources as State Prize laureates – even though they received the award when the State Prize did not yet exist.

State Prize came in 3 classes only until 1966.

Since 1967 only one class was issued, accompanied by a single class State Prize Medal in gold. "

I just saw nice documented group for sale by major Russian dealer in the US. The group consists of Lenin (Dec 1990) and State Prize in Gold(Apr 1978).

Serial numbers of Gold Prize Medal - #7039 - and of Gramota for the Prize - #06620 - don't match.

William