07-07-2008, 03:06 AM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2008, 03:09 AM by Jeffrey Meffert.)
Going to throw myself upon the mercy of the forum here. Over the last few years I've periodically stared at this kitel trying to figure out if it is legit or put together. The easy answer to why I can't find this in any books may be because it doesn't belong in any. On the other hand, just because folks haven't seen one before, doesn't mean it can't be real. Would love to see opinions either way.
For your consideration: a M43 kitel in blue (militia, navy?), with 1954 dated standard H&S buttons (not navy). It is piped in a deep blue at cuffs and collar (same color as NKVD and pre-47 militia? not navy). Epaulets are also piped in the same NKVD sort of blue but are gold background (not silver of militia or wartime legal. nkvd or navy?) with gold stars. Gold, blue piped cuff spools are professionally attached. Ribbons are two separate pin backed bars but appropriately sequenced for Kutuzov 3rd class, victory germany, bravery medal, partisan 2nd class and liberation prague. There is a hole in the middle of the right pocket flap which looks like it held an order with a full size screwplate, not a smaller guards or graduation badge. I'd love to make the case for a shady but heroic wartime character who settled down after the war to prosecute left over fascists but I've always had an active sense of imagination.
Jeff, You happy with the bar? Even wear on all the ribbons, same size ribbons &c?
BTW, VoG comes after a Bravery so maybe that's a OG3. But OG's an enlisted award and a Kutuzov is....well decidedly not an enlisted award. :)
Bars like that make me wince.
But then again that bar, be it fake or real, may just have been added on as an extra, not demeaning the value of a hopefully good tunic.
I wish I had more experience with which to help ya on this one.
"patina imparts character" - PJS
A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'
Esteban_cool Wrote:Now I understand why I haven´t seen RF issue Razryad badges.
What's a Razryad badge?
"patina imparts character" - PJS
A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'
vvadim Wrote:Everyday naval tunic from 80’s converted to completely fantasy piece.
How so (I wanna learn)? Different buttons I presume? Those cuff thingees are added as well? The piping's been added or changed?
"patina imparts character" - PJS
A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'
07-08-2008, 12:53 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2008, 12:54 AM by Jeffrey Meffert.)
Eric has a point. No navy tunics had blue piping on the blue tunic. That's a lot of effort to do cuffs and collar and I paid very little for this with some other stuff. Point also well taken on ribbon bars. So here's the question: assuming ribbon bar and cuff spools were added on and buttons were changed. Who has a blue piped, dark blue M43 kitel? Anybody?
And what is a razryad badge?
While I tend to think its been really played with (early days of collecting someone faking an "NKVD Naval Officer"?)....maybe its more of a mystery, who knows....
Any evidence that newer buttons had been taken off and replaced with the 1950's dated buttons? Also, did you pull back the piping all over the tunic, really pull it, to see if there might be any original white left (assuming that it was white dyed into blue; ask TR collectors, it happens with them often)?
I know most of you are probably going to think this is crazy, but could it be an experimental air force tunic of some sort? The blue piping is a bit dark, but you never know...
i think any idea about this tunic is ok to throw out there! might be one of those ones we never figure out...so far no one has a story that fits all the parts.
07-08-2008, 03:58 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2008, 09:59 AM by Jeffrey Meffert.)
Piping is blue all the way through. Militia wore dark blue with blue piping 1943 to 1947 but epaulets and buttons would be wrong for that. While looking for clues or stamps on epaulets (none), I discovered the stars are actually screwback. Don't see that very often. So many mysteries...
Does anyone know, in the 50's, what would a prosecutor (or defense counselor if allowed) be wearing in court?
