relationship between long service and other awards

[redstar]

Evening all.

First, sorry if this has been asked before.

I have been offered a documented and researched group which includes a Combat Service Medal. The serial number of that medal would put it in the range of long service awards for 1945-1946.

The document that comes with the group has a photo showing the soldier wearing one CSM only. He is also wearing the 30th anniversary medal which would mean that the photo was taken in or after 1948.

The research shows that the soldier was awarded a CSM for actual combat on 4 March 1945 AND there is also what appears to be a citation for a long service CSM dated 12 March 1945.

Bearing in mind that my guy only ever got one CSM, I was wondering what the practice was when someone was due to get a long service award and at approximately the same time was awarded the same medal for combat actions.

Did the authorities simply hand out one award only in those circumstances? Does anyone know of any instances where someone got 2 awards of the same type at the same time (long service and combat)?

Once again, sorry if this has been asked before. If it has, could someone direct me to the appropriate thread.

Regards,

redstar

[Auke]

He would definitely have gotten two medals. I've seen it a few times. Remember that a CSM for combat actions was awarded at regimental level, while a long service CSM was awarded by the Presidium, and the recommendation therefore had to go up the chain of command. They are two separate processes.

[redstar]

Thank you for that Auke.

On the basis of your answer and the fact that there is only one CSM in this group, I'm very suspicious of the group and will probably leave it alone.

Regards,

redstar

[desantnik]

PIctures of the award booklet may help in the determination.

It is possible his combat award was granted as a catch-up award after the time in your picture. It is entirely possible that although authorized the CSM in 1945, he didn't physically receive it until many years later.

[redstar]

PIctures of the award booklet may help in the determination.

It is possible his combat award was granted as a catch-up award after the time in your picture. It is entirely possible that although authorized the CSM in 1945, he didn't physically receive it until many years later.

Thanks For that. This had occurred to me, but there is only one CSM in the award booklet, so no help there.

I think the group is a little dodgy.

I've arranged to do some preliminary research to see if at least the award book serial numbers can be tied to the research. Auke is helping me out with that. I'll let you know how I get on.

Regards,

redstar

[redstar]

I have one further related question to this.

Say a soldier joined the Red Army in 1920 and did not leave it until the 1950's.

Given that CSM's, Red Stars, Red Banners and Lenins could be awarded for long service from 1944 to 1957, would my soldier in 1944 retrospectively receive:

1. CSM (1920-1930),
2. Red Star (1920-1935); and
3. Red Banner (1920-1940)

all at the same time?

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

redstar

[Auke]

In my experience, such an officer would receive a Red Banner for 20 years of service in November 1944 and a Lenin for 25 years of service in February 1945 (and a Red Banner again around 1950).

[CtahhR]

Long answer short - No.

You would get only the highest level long service award that was applicable to you when they were instituted.

If you had served 20 years when the awards were "modified" for long service you got the 20 years service award.

[Auke]

In theory, that is, if that - it seems that practically all officers who had joined the Red Army between 1918 and the early 20s received both a Red Banner and a Lenin in 1944/1945.

[redstar]

Thanks or that guys.

The "rules" (if thats what they are) are a little confusing aren't they?

Regards,

redstar