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+----- Thread: Post-GPW award system (/Thread-Post-GPW-award-system)
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Post-GPW award system - Nack - 02-05-2006
That sounds very plausible Simon--excellent insight. :thumbsup
Post-GPW award system - desantnik - 02-05-2006
Simon Wrote:Between 1956 and 1979, only a few Soviet soldiers were involved in combat at hot spots. These operations were either classified or at least not suitable for the media. Therefore, it was undesirable to award pure combat awards for political reasons discussed in the previous paragraph. Imagine a soldier coming home in let's say 1970 with Glory for his actions in a classified mission. What would he say to curious neighbours? Even if Glory was awarded between 1956 and 1979, it was done in small quantity and the collector community doesn't know about it. As for Afghanistan, I can speculate that Defense Ministry issued an instruction specifying which orders and medals were to be given for this conflict. Such instruction, if it existed, didn't include Glory.
Simon
Yes, I've tried to reason in a similar vein, but I run into inconsistencies.
As in my initial posting, I can rationalize that the OPW, due to its name was no longer handed out. Thanks for pointing out that harvesting incident - I haven't looked at MONDVOR in a long time. Interesting stuff there.
As to Glory, I thought in a similar vein to you, however during limited conflicts and even secret operations, Red Banners, Red Stars, BM and CSM medals were issued AFTER the appearance of long service medals. So just how did a draftee soldier or junior officer far removed by age from the GPW explain his new, shiny award? For training accomplishments? If so, why a BRAVERY medal? If enlisted soldiers coming back from Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Afghanistan wore home their RB, RS, BM, and CSM - why wasn't the Order of Glory included among them?
Maybe as you indicated there were limited awardings of the Glory that we don't know about, but then that would invalidate your explanation about embarrassing "political" considerations.
Regarding Afghanistan, I guess it would be helpful if someone could produce the "instruction" you mentioned. Even if someone could produce it, would it explain my original question - WHY wasn't the Order of Glory included post-war among other combat awards?
Post-GPW award system - Dave - 02-05-2006
desantnik Wrote:As to Glory, I thought in a similar vein to you, however during limited conflicts and even secret operations, Red Banners, Red Stars, BM and CSM medals were issued AFTER the appearance of long service medals. So just how did a draftee soldier or junior officer far removed by age from the GPW explain his new, shiny award? For training accomplishments? If so, why a BRAVERY medal?
I can't fully explain the For Valor medal as I've never seen one with a post war non-combat citation, but I think all of the other awards could easily be explained away as being given out for either training related prowess or by random events of bravery. For example, a friend of mine was awarded a For Military Merit medal for protecting a nuclear-weapon laden vehicle from falling off the side of a mountain road in the 1970s as a Junior Lieutenant. I have another Military Merit (awarded to a Captain 3rd Rank) given in the 1970s for techincal advances as a naval engineer (the citation was originally for a "For Heroic Labor" medal) and I have a Red Banner that was given for an increase in the training readiness of conscripts by a Lieutenant Colonel in 1967. I've seen Red Stars likewise awarded for such "non combat" related activities.
However, I've never seen a Bravery medal given for a post-war action (save for one that you told me about for Czechoslovakia) for either labor "valor" or military combat valor. I've researched a few postwar ones, and they've all been for events stemming from WW2 or from the Revolution.
Dave
Post-GPW award system - Simon - 02-06-2006
Quote:That sounds very plausible Simon--excellent insight.
Thanks, Nack.
Quote:As to Glory, I thought in a similar vein to you, however during limited conflicts and even secret operations, Red Banners, Red Stars, BM and CSM medals were issued AFTER the appearance of long service medals. So just how did a draftee soldier or junior officer far removed by age from the GPW explain his new, shiny award? For training accomplishments? If so, why a BRAVERY medal?
Bravery medal could have been awarded for "fullfillment of military duty with risk to life." Such formulation leaves room for subjective interpretation. I think "military duty" can be something done at the time of peace.
Quote:Maybe as you indicated there were limited awardings of the Glory that we don't know about, but then that would invalidate your explanation about embarrassing "political" considerations.Yes, that would. I consider it as an alternative explanation.
Quote:Regarding Afghanistan, I guess it would be helpful if someone could produce the "instruction" you mentioned. Even if someone could produce it, would it explain my original question - WHY wasn't the Order of Glory included post-war among other combat awards?I found info on a Russian forum about o. of Glory that were given for island Damansky incident in 1969. Consequently, Glory wasn't excluded until that time at least. Even if we see the Afghanistan "instruction", this document is unlikely to tell us WHY. Only the official who wrote it would know the reason that came to his mind.
Post-GPW award system - desantnik - 02-07-2006
Dave Wrote:However, I've never seen a Bravery medal given for a post-war action (save for one that you told me about for Czechoslovakia) Dave
Other than this one you mentioned, I too can't personally produce one. Bravery Medals were widely awarded for Afghanistan and recipients were often published in period photos discussing Afghanistan as well as in me***rs. I also have a friend awarded one for his actions in Angola awarded in 1990.
Post-GPW award system - desantnik - 02-07-2006
If the Order of Glory was awarded post-war for a border incident, maybe there was a written/unwritten understanding that it would only be awarded for actions defending the Rodina. The other awards I've mentioned and more frequently awarded for post-war actions may have been relegated to "internationalist" duties. Just a thought.
Post-GPW award system - slava1stclass - 02-15-2006
To all:
Included among the Russian-language research material I've gathered for my forthcoming book is documentation confirming the award of the Order of Glory 2nd Class for valor in North Korea in 1950 (for action against American forces).
Regards,
slava1stclass
Post-GPW award system - desantnik - 02-15-2006
Allrighty then, we've got a documented Glory awarded for Korea and a rumored one as late as the USSR-China border incident. Nice find. Maybe there is something to researching all those late issue Glories and expecting something more than an award for wounds received. Somewhere along the line these ceased being awarded, however. I can say with almost 100% veracity that Glories weren't awarded during Afghanistan. Will your book add anything as to if/when Glories stopped being awarded for present acts of valor and not retroactive ones or wounds?
Post-GPW award system - Dave - 02-16-2006
I'm having a bunch of late Glories researched right now... we'll see if any of them come back for something "interesting" or if they're going to be a lot of delayed wartime awards...
Dave