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+----- Thread: Group with 3 medals of bravery (/Thread-Group-with-3-medals-of-bravery)
Group with 3 medals of bravery - desantnik - 04-17-2008
Brian is right, the 3M+ BM is a "throw-away" for awarding since it was mostly likely post-war catch-up.
However, the remaining two BMs and one CSM awarded supposedly for actions in the last six weeks of the war (APR-9 MAY) seem a little unlikely.
He probably didn't go to Japan either due to the lack of that service medal.
Group with 3 medals of bravery - ANZAC - 04-18-2008
desantnik Wrote:Here are 3 BMs, sequentially #'d.
With 3 numbers in sequence as this, would it be fair to assume they were awarded for the same action or within a set time frame e.g. day 1, 2, 3 of actions?:confused:
Brendan
Group with 3 medals of bravery - Kirchgoens - 04-18-2008
ANZAC Wrote:With 3 numbers in sequence as this, would it be fair to assume they were awarded for the same action or within a set time frame e.g. day 1, 2, 3 of actions?:confused:
Brendan
With 3.2 mil serial numbers, I'd guess our boy here got three catch-up awards on the same day from the same source, most probably for three different actions on three different dates that could have been spread across any period of time in the war. In other words, these three high and consecutive serial numbers will probably tell you absolutely nothing about when and where the action took place.
Group with 3 medals of bravery - ANZAC - 04-18-2008
Aaha!:idea
Thanks Brian:thumbsup
Group with 3 medals of bravery - desantnik - 04-18-2008
Kirchgoens Wrote:With 3.2 mil serial numbers, I'd guess our boy here got three catch-up awards on the same day from the same source, most probably for three different actions on three different dates that could have been spread across any period of time in the war. In other words, these three high and consecutive serial numbers will probably tell you absolutely nothing about when and where the action took place.
That's exactly it. Apparently the unit didn't have a stock of awards on hand and it waited until the supply situation caught up or the rapid Soviet advance didn't permit a more responsive awarding. When the situation died down and there was time for an award ceremony, all three came at the same time.
I looked at the award card and all three awards were awarded for JAN-FEB '45, two of which were even awarded within 10 days of each other. At first glance this would blow out of the water my comment above about the unlikelihood of 3-4 valor medal awardings in a short period in the last days of the war, but it may validate it even more.
If the set in question that started this thread is legitimate, why would the medals be from such disparate sets of serial numbers?
Group with 3 medals of bravery - ANZAC - 04-18-2008
Legit grouping or not, if the awards were sold seperate you'd probably get what the price is at now, around $200. If it was/is legit $200 for such a grouping is more than a good investment.;)
Brendan:)
Group with 3 medals of bravery - desantnik - 04-19-2008
Guys, look at the first BM stamp and then compare it with the last two. The stamps are NOT the same. This booklet is BAD.
Group with 3 medals of bravery - Kirchgoens - 04-19-2008
Research at least one of the BMs. In the end, you'll at least have a good set of AC and Citation, and you may find (against the possible odds) that you actually have a good doc. There's nothing like the facts to settle the issue... Give it a shot!
Group with 3 medals of bravery - desantnik - 04-19-2008
Kirchgoens Wrote:Research at least one of the BMs. In the end, you'll at least have a good set of AC and Citation, and you may find (against the possible odds) that you actually have a good doc. There's nothing like the facts to settle the issue... Give it a shot!
Brian, I don't see the logic. If something is tinkered with, it's bad. The last two BM stamps are not "official" issue.
Group with 3 medals of bravery - Kirchgoens - 04-20-2008
I'm guessing you guys are right about this being tinkered with. Still, if the set was mine, I would eventually research just one of the awards just prove for a fact the tinkering before splitting it all up, and at least net a single researched award to boot. I've actually got a smaller group that I strongly suspect of the same problem right now: I have an award booklet and the final medal listed, but I think the ink is bad and that someone tacked it on. I think the doc has been tampered with, but I want to get an AC before I write off the booklet I have. I've got the money to do the research, so I figured "what the hell, why not."
I guess I now have this sense that there are so many variations in the ways things were done that we just never know for a genuine fact until docs are in hand. Maybe after breaking it up, someone will find that these stamps came out in different variations or there was some wierd circumstance that no one expected or that the holder (for some reason we just don't know) had two BM's added by another unit after the first entries in '46 (maybe he lost his paperwork?). I think it also helps to train all us newbies when we match professional observations with documentation. It definitively teaches us what to look for (stuff the old hands don't miss as easily) by showing how a fake is caught by intuitive observation and proven with factual documents.
The difference in the capital "O" on the last two stamps sure calls it all heavily into question: like someone came around long after the fact and added two orphans to make a big and sexy group. Still, there's nothing like an award card to give a dude a reason to finalize the divorce when someone splits this "faked" group up. It's like personally actually catching her in bed with another man instead of just being told about it by a friend... ;)
Of course, that "proof" will cost $55 to $65... :)