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+----- Thread: GPW NKVD Visor Hats (/Thread-GPW-NKVD-Visor-Hats)
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - Jack D. Elmquist - 01-05-2011
Good question and really is the basis for beginning this discussion. My initial reference to Red Army Uniforms 1918-1945 by Shalito et. al. on p.8 says.
"Officiers' (NKVD) uniforms (1939-1943) ...differed from that shown before by brick red collar patches and 1935 pattern NKVD peaked cap with blue crown, brick red band and crimson piping." The comment goes on to discuss other matters, but I am left with the impression that lower ranks (perhaps lieutenant on down) had the red bands which we find so frequently as WW2 NKVD visor hats. My guess is that the brick red bands were for officers (maybe officers above lieutenant). As we know brick red was used in 1943 for all general officers and above. I know there are NKVD visor hats with a brick red band that are not general officer hats so my guess is that they are at least senior officer hats and more collectible than the NKVD hats with red bands. Just my opinion.
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - Jeffrey Meffert - 01-05-2011
If the question is only about the nkvd, I don't think there are any NKVD ranks that use the same color red band as red army generals and marshals of the soviet union do. All, including NKVD general officers, have the brick red, marroonish color. NCO's (and other enlisted ranks) are likely to be seen wearing helmets, un-piped pilotkas, un-piped subdued olive field caps, or blue top caps with brick red bands.
That being said, a cap sitting in a museum display for a couple of decades could have the exposed darker red fade but you should still be able to find the original color under the chin strap.
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - Jack D. Elmquist - 01-05-2011
My collecting days are over, but my experience with WW2 NKVD visors is that there are more with red bands than brick red bands, that is, other than general officers. If you check around on eBay or other places where these hats are sold you will come to the same conclusion. Your comment about fading or manufacture variations is just what I am writing about. The Soviets used a variety of colors in their uniforms. The color combinations in cavalry hats alone are said to exceed 100 combinations. I think there was some thought given to the differences between brick red and red. But first you must accept that many legitimate WW2 NKVD visors have a red band. I think I have said all that I can say on this subject. My recommendation to new collectors remains - seek out the brick red bands.
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - Lapa - 01-05-2011
Guys,
Before jumping to hasty conclusions, how about checking the original text (that is, the Russian version) of Shalito's book. So far, there has been a lot play with semantics on a translated text...
Marc
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - medals73 - 01-05-2011
Lapa Wrote:Guys,
Before jumping to hasty conclusions, how about checking the original text (that is, the Russian version) of Shalito's book. So far, there has been a lot play with semantics on a translated text...
Marc
Many (most?) of us can't read Russian, so please do enlighten us, Master.
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - RichieC - 01-06-2011
medals73 Wrote:Many (most?) of us can't read Russian, so please do enlighten us, Master.
Sigh...
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - RichieC - 01-06-2011
Jack D. Elmquist Wrote:But first you must accept that many legitimate WW2 NKVD visors have a red band.
Unfortunately, I can not - unless it pertains to a General's or Marshal's cap...
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - RichieC - 01-06-2011
Jack D. Elmquist Wrote:My recommendation to new collectors remains - seek out the brick red bands.
Mine also, when seeking a cap for all other ranks except for those in my last post...
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - RichieC - 01-06-2011
Komandir RKKA Wrote:Army never had red band on visors.
Dear Associate,
This is not part of the Army? :p
GPW NKVD Visor Hats - Jeffrey Meffert - 01-06-2011
RichieC Wrote:Dear Associate,
This is not part of the Army? :p
Well, if that isn't...this one is.
In any case, "under the red star" has an excellent summary...at least from 1945 on.
http://www.undertheredstar.com/colors.htm