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+----- Thread: All Other Fake Soviet Medals (/Thread-All-Other-Fake-Soviet-Medals)
All Other Fake Soviet Medals - SergioV - 08-22-2013
Hallo fellow collectors
Just another fake version of the medal that has never existed,
on sale now..
beware is just one bait and switch..
Regards
All Other Fake Soviet Medals - Shocktrooper - 09-20-2013
Hi !
Don`t say that this variation never existed - it`s said to be a (custommade ?) variation for high - ranking officers most likely - yes; but one belonging to a time when the Soviet Union still existed. Several photos do exist of Generals actually wearing this variation !
Of course it it easy to fake it using a nearly unworn, normal medal.
Jens
All Other Fake Soviet Medals - SergioV - 09-21-2013
Hi Shocktrooper
few months ago i was searching and asking news and information about this medal, after reading and hearing many stories the most unexpected answer came to me by an old Colonel of the Russian Federation, playing on the fact about how easy is sell fake things in America and Europe, told me: this variant has never existed, some veteran joker decided to do electroplating of gold, it is nice to see, but in the State Archives does not appear as a variant, and in fact there are no documents to the assignment of the golden variant.
And just to have another confirmation, this medal do not exist even in the two Soviet Museums that i have visited to Moscow
http://soviet-awards.com/forum/soviet-military-awards/general-talk/95797-central-museum-great-patriotic-war-central-museum-armed-forces.html
we see what developments will have this topic..
Regards
SergioV
All Other Fake Soviet Medals - Shocktrooper - 09-26-2013
Hi Sergio,
please take a look in "Avers" No. 6 !
And one of the images I mean:
Jens
All Other Fake Soviet Medals - CtahhR - 09-26-2013
What people wear and what they are awarded could be completely different things. Here in Britain for example many wear miniatures or copies (which are often marked with a "C") which have to be purchased. These are representative of what the recipients were awarded but not the actual items they were awarded. Then again "Medals" are only a visual representation of an award.
If someone wants to "individualise" their awards or wear something similar to represent the award issued they will. Does it mean the items were issued by the government or made in the state mint? No.
So far with the "Gold" Veteran we can only say "As worn by X" not "As awarded by X" or "As produced by X".
All Other Fake Soviet Medals - SergioV - 09-27-2013
Shocktrooper Wrote:Hi Sergio,
please take a look in "Avers" No. 6 !
And one of the images I mean:
Jens
Hi Shocktroopers
I have Avers 6 i saw the picture of the gold version but this do not means that is true, i tell you why, this book speak about a version of the Great Patriotic War order that does not exist.
CtahhR Wrote:What people wear and what they are awarded could be completely different things. Here in Britain for example many wear miniatures or copies (which are often marked with a "C") which have to be purchased. These are representative of what the recipients were awarded but not the actual items they were awarded. Then again "Medals" are only a visual representation of an award.
If someone wants to "individualise" their awards or wear something similar to represent the award issued they will. Does it mean the items were issued by the government or made in the state mint? No.
So far with the "Gold" Veteran we can only say "As worn by X" not "As awarded by X" or "As produced by X".
Dear CtahhR, what war veteran wear is not the point, veterans have my respect they can chose to wear even a plastic thing that can remember a battle, but if we speak about been a collectors is different,
( i do not think that you wish to pay 500 pound for a medal with C ) we like do research we study soviet pictures, soviet documents and soviet archives, it makes no sense to waste so much time to speak about real or fake orders and medals, in all forum, if after we must accept that something that does not exist is real because somebody decide to make a personal version and wear this.
What veteran wear is not a prove that this medal existed for me. what a book says is not always a proof of existence, what a government state archives tell, is a prove.
We are collectors or this is what we try to be, so we want real things, we pay for have originality, no collector wants to fund the wallet of a forger, and sell a no real thing or modified at a high price is wrong.
It is not rewarding for those who buy,
as it is not nice to discover that we have fake medals in our collections.
For me your equation is :
is/was worn by one veteran,
is/was been awarded by nobody,
is/was produced by a forger.
if someone brings me evidence that I'm wrong or if you or I'll find evidence of the existence in the future, I'll be the first to apologize to you. :)
All Other Fake Soviet Medals - CtahhR - 09-27-2013
I'm not sure you fully understood my point I will try to make it simpler.
The "Medal" exists - it is a physical object, we can see it. The "Medal" being an "Award" of the state or produced by the state has not been proven.
At this time I doubt any magical "secret document" from the former Soviet archives will turn up stating that they officially awarded these.
Even if we see video footage of the recipient receiving the Golden Medal it does not mean that it was the awarded Medal as it may have been substituted prior to issue. If that did happen those that received it may believe it was some sort of special gift from the state rather than a localised anomaly.
Would I buy a Golden one? No, unless part of a documented group at no extra cost to a "normal" one.
This may be an issue that splits the phalerists from the numismatists.