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+---- Thread: Patriotic War. (/Thread-Patriotic-War)
Patriotic War. - Auke - 10-11-2011
CtahhR Wrote:An excellent story! In a Soviet-Dutch "cooperative" move wasn't begeers asked to produce some Soviet awards in either the 60's and 70's?I've never heard about that. Do you have any idea what they were asked to produce?
CtahhR Wrote:The Netherlands may seem to be very much out of the Soviet theatre of the Great Patriotic War but lest we forget the battle of Texel.Exactly, and it seems that a few Dutch individuals served with the Red Army. Several years ago I spoke to a gentleman who knew a Dutch man who had served with the Red Army and even earned a few medals, but that was before I was interested in Soviet awards and I unfortunately lost contact with him since.
I also know that at least one Dutch individual, a certain R. de Jong, was awarded the Medal to a Partisan of the Great Patriotic War 2nd Class posthumously in 1964 for his service with Russian partisans.
Furthermore, while we're on the topic of Soviet awards to Dutchmen, in 1966 two Dutch Sergeants and a Major were awarded the Bravery Medal for saving a Russian engineer from the freezing waters of the North Sea after his motor sloop had capsized. I'd like to know more about these cases but I really don't know where I could find more information about them.
Patriotic War. - CtahhR - 10-11-2011
I was once told by a former Begeers employee that the USSR had the company produce a batch of 30 Partisan Medals 1st Class. I don't know if they were to be awarded to Dutch "helpers" or anyone else. I was informed that the batch was not made exactly to the Soviets' specifications (and they may have stayed with Begeers in their entirety or some may have been awarded to Dutch citizens). Begeers may have also produced tiny batches of other Soviet awards intended for Dutch citizens. I have contacted Begeers on the matter and they will not confirm nor deny. It's not really a good subject to air as not only is it not the most "P.C." to have made awards for the Cold War "enemy" but also to have made them to a disappointing quality.
As for finding out about Soviet awards awarded to the people of the Netherlands shouldn't there be accounts of these with the formerly Soviet and now Russian embassy? I'm sure they'll have who what where and when somewhere in the records. Getting access to those records is a totally different game though.
Patriotic War. - desantnik - 10-11-2011
CtahhR Wrote:I was once told by a former Begeers employee that the USSR had the company produce a batch of 30 Partisan Medals 1st Class. I don't know if they were to be awarded to Dutch "helpers" or anyone else. I was informed that the batch was not made exactly to the Soviets' specifications (and they may have stayed with Begeers in their entirety or some may have been awarded to Dutch citizens). Begeers may have also produced tiny batches of other Soviet awards intended for Dutch citizens. I have contacted Begeers on the matter and they will not confirm nor deny. It's not really a good subject to air as not only is it not the most "P.C." to have made awards for the Cold War "enemy" but also to have made them to a disappointing quality.
As for finding out about Soviet awards awarded to the people of the Netherlands shouldn't there be accounts of these with the formerly Soviet and now Russian embassy? I'm sure they'll have who what where and when somewhere in the records. Getting access to those records is a totally different game though.
Anything's possible, but it doesn't sound very logical or economical.
Patriotic War. - CtahhR - 10-11-2011
It certainly wouldn't be the first case of Soviet awards being produced outside the Soviet Union. It doesn't sound very logical but as we all know international policy and relationships very rarely are.
Patriotic War. - desantnik - 10-11-2011
CtahhR Wrote:It certainly wouldn't be the first case of Soviet awards being produced outside the Soviet Union. It doesn't sound very logical but as we all know international policy and relationships very rarely are.
When did this occur - I remember only seeing miniatures made in Poland or the UK, I think, and I thought those were individual orders, not Soviet government ordered.
Again, anything's possible, but with diplomatic pouches it would be nothing to throw 30 medals in a bag and have a courier bring them with the monthly mail run.
Patriotic War. - CtahhR - 10-11-2011
Czechoslovak Produced Soviet Awards
Patriotic War. - desantnik - 10-11-2011
Interesting - I even commented on it. Gettin' old.
Patriotic War. - CtahhR - 10-11-2011
The M.D. site says on the topic of Partisan Medal 2nd Class. The same could be true of the 1st Class Medal. This somewhat falls into line with the Begeers story.
(!) По данным, полученным из различных источников, нам известно, что в послевоенные годы была изготовлена партия медалей второй степени с цельноштампованным ухом. На данный момент мы не располагаем достоверными изображениями подобных медалей. Ниже приведены изображения медали, которая, вероятно, была отпечатанная из томпака на ЛМД в 1960-70-х годах и, возможно, является "пробником" указанной партии.
Patriotic War. - Lapa - 10-11-2011
CtahhR Wrote:It certainly wouldn't be the first case of Soviet awards being produced outside the Soviet Union. It doesn't sound very logical but as we all know international policy and relationships very rarely are.
To date, there is only ONE instance of a Soviet medal officially being produced on behalf of the Soviet Mint, that is the Liberation of Prague medal produced by Zahradnik.
CtahhR Wrote:The M.D. site says on the topic of Partisan Medal 2nd Class. The same could be true of the 1st Class Medal. This somewhat falls into line with the Begeers story.
(!) По данным, полученным из различных источников, нам известно, что в послевоенные годы была изготовлена партия медалей второй степени с цельноштампованным ухом. На данный момент мы не располагаем достоверными изображениями подобных медалей. Ниже приведены изображения медали, которая, вероятно, была отпечатанная из томпака на ЛМД в 1960-70-х годах и, возможно, является "пробником" указанной партии.
CtahhR,
Not quite! The text you quote simply indicates that "voenkomat" type of Partisan medals were made in tombac at LMD in the 1960-70's. There is absolutely NO reference to or inference of any foreign origin for these atypical Partisan medals.
Marc
Patriotic War. - CtahhR - 10-11-2011
I was mainly referring to time-scale 1960's-70's (although that is a period covering two decades). The Partisan Medal 1st Class allegedly produced by Begeers was also made of (plated) Tombac. If we can track down any of Dutch recipients of awards then it may be possible to find photographs of their awards which will be a large clue as to whether they conform to known Soviet produced types or take a different production style. If they are found to have been awarded Orders and Medals that do not fit the Soviet production types it may add weight to the story of Dutch produced "probe" items.
Begeers are the producer of the awards of the Netherlands amongst other things.