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+--- Thread: Prices/Value Discussion. (/Thread-Prices-Value-Discussion)
Prices/Value Discussion. - Dave - 08-21-2005
Brian Wrote:I figured that most of the high end items had to be topping out, but then I looked on one of the US dealer's sites and saw they had individual Kutuzov's going for:
2nd class - $8800
3rd class - $7700
I can remember back not long ago when I sold an entire HSU group with all awards and all documents AND a Kutuzov 3rd for $7700! :hurl
Oh well... I guess that's part of the reason a lot of us "old timers" aren't really playing too much anymore: I wasn't impressed with Kutuzov 3rds when they were a whopping $800... I'm definately not going to spend two months pay on one now! :rant:
Dave
Prices/Value Discussion. - rboomsma - 08-21-2005
How about a ORDER OF BOGDAN KHMELNITSKY - 2nd Class for $11500 :eek:
Thats what they want on one well known dealers site now. I have given up on collecting soviet orders now and have switched to Mongolian Orders. There more beautiful and very affordable.
Dave Wrote:I can remember back not long ago when I sold an entire HSU group with all awards and all documents AND a Kutuzov 3rd for $7700! :hurl
Oh well... I guess that's part of the reason a lot of us "old timers" aren't really playing too much anymore: I wasn't impressed with Kutuzov 3rds when they were a whopping $800... I'm definately not going to spend two months pay on one now! :rant:
Dave
Prices/Value Discussion. - dannybou - 08-21-2005
The price of Orders is the reason why I have shyed away from them now. Soviet/Russian badges for me right now.
Prices/Value Discussion. - new world - 08-21-2005
Dave Wrote:I can remember back not long ago when I sold an entire HSU group with all awards and all documents AND a Kutuzov 3rd for $7700! :hurl
Oh well... I guess that's part of the reason a lot of us "old timers" aren't really playing too much anymore: I wasn't impressed with Kutuzov 3rds when they were a whopping $800... I'm definately not going to spend two months pay on one now! :rant:
Dave
Dave,
Three-four years ago for about $7700 I could have bought 3rd class Kutuzov AND 2nd class Kutuzov AND 1st class Kutuzov!
Complete set of Kutuzov orders for what a dealer's asking for 3rd class... I still remember 1st cl offered then for about $6000, dealers had plenty of 2nd cl for about $1000 and 3rd class were about $700... What was I thinking??? :hurl
William
Prices/Value Discussion. - Tretov - 08-21-2005
I plan to invest 3000 USD in a HSL group (HSL + Lenin-order + Deputy badges + documents) from a well-known dealer. The money does not give any interest now, being in a bank storage, and having followed the price increasements (rising prices thread), I think this would be a good investment.
What do you think? What will a documented complete HSL cost in a few years?
Prices/Value Discussion. - ekclete - 08-21-2005
The huge price increases ruined WWII Soviet era medal collecting for me. Dave makes the perfect point - to add a new medal to the collection requires a couple months wages these days. That takes the fun out of it for me.
But I still like collecting Soviet military and shifted my focus to WWII general's visors and tunics. Granted it is not cheap, but the market for those types of items are still somewhat affordable. Well, affordable with patient dealers that is!!
Prices/Value Discussion. - new world - 08-21-2005
I'd be careful with making such investments.
First, the prices on Soviet awards are at all time high. One reason medals are so scarce is that many collectors as well as investors accumulated multiple items in hope that price would go up. Prices have been raising due to limited demand, but guess what will happen if several folks decide to dump Suvorov 3rd cl for example? Yes, dealers list Suvorov 3rd around $5000, but with multiple offers around - is that $5K price sustainable?
Second, Russia plays major role in price acceleration. Russian cash rich wealth is fueled by oil prices only, but what if oil prices decide to head south? With oil revenues shrinking and Russian economy in decline - how many folks in Russia will care about Soviet awards? Even worth, what if they decide to sell their collections?
Third, market for Soviet awards is already very limited outside of Russia.
It's up to you, but I'd think twice.
William
Prices/Value Discussion. - HuliganRS - 08-22-2005
If you like the group buy it.
If you want investment, well then it's up to you.
Prices/Value Discussion. - Dave - 08-22-2005
It's tough to predict how much an HSL will go up. Will it double? Will it triple? Back in 2002, I laughed when I heard of an Ushakov medal going for $600... I thought that was insane as I had never paid more than $400 for one. Now look at them! Same with just about any other numbered Soviet award. Will they continue their rise? Will Ushakov medals be worth $2000 next year? I can't answer that. William is right in that it's tough to predict, and if the Russian economy tanks for some reason, or if the US dollar appreciates against the Euro, I think you'll see prices go down for awards, not up. So, to echo Rusty... If you like the group, buy it. If you want it for an investment, that's up to you. If it's the same group that I think you're referring to, I was the one that got it from the person who got it from the family and it is a very nice group with some unusual documents.
Dave
Prices/Value Discussion. - Chuck In Oregon - 08-22-2005
I think that buying collectibles as investments, certainly in the short-to-medium term, is inadvisable. Collectible markets are volatile and irrational and too often influenced by emotion, pressure from dealers and speculators or a herd mentality. If you are buying at retail prices, then you are already buying ahead of the market that major wholesale buyers are playing in. You are their target market. Who is yours? When it comes time to sell, who will you be competing with?
If you are considering buying this group purely as speculation, well, I wouldn't. Think tech stocks, baseball cards and tulips. If it's too good to be true, well ... ? Sure, you're entitled to speculate -- some speculators have made tons of money -- but don't fool yourself that it is really investing.
The market for Soviet collectibles has risen substantially in the past few years, as we all know. I have only been collecting since 2001 but I have seen the apparent value of some of my things rise to unbelievable levels. Yes, I have bought many things for re-sale too, but only because -- at least in my mind -- my purchases directly from families, or from FSU collectors whom I know well, were something like buying wholesale.
See, I can justify just about anything, too. However, if no one ever bought anything else from me I would still have the pleasure of buying and owning all my stuff. I wouldn't make any money to buy more, but that would still be enough for me. Would it be for you?
HulliganRS got it exactly right. Buy it if it pleases you to own it and if it satisfies your desire to collect interesting things. This hobby fascinates and pleases me. That's enough. If you are truly considering this group as part of your investment portfolio, try to keep collectibles at something like the 5% level of your total portfolio.
Just my two cents, and worth every penny.
Chuck