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+----- Thread: Order "Brotherhood And Unity". (/Thread-Order-Brotherhood-And-Unity)
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - Taz - 05-08-2004
Approximately 56,000 awarded from its instuitution in 1943 until 1985.
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - Taz - 05-09-2004
Here is the Order of Brotherhood and Unity 1st Class.
Notice on the First Class the laurel wreath is gold as opposed to Silver on the second class.
Not a very good pic I'm afraid, If I find a better one I'll edit it.
Eddie.
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - DutchBoy - 08-03-2005
I just received this one in the mail. Please take a look at the serial number #243. It seems the clasp for the stick pin is soldered in the middle of the serial number, or otherwise the serial number is stamped on either side of the pin.
I think this is strange, so please can anyone shed any light on this piece?
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - Mark - 08-04-2005
Is it possible that the stick pin is soldered right on to the 5-digit serial number? I can't remember any other explanation for this. I don't think it's possible that one number is stamped on one side of the stick pin and the other two on the other side...
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - redmedals - 08-04-2005
DutchBoy Wrote:I just received this one in the mail. Please take a look at the serial number #243. It seems the clasp for the stick pin is soldered in the middle of the serial number, or otherwise the serial number is stamped on either side of the pin.This looks like a conversion to a stickpin from a screwback to me, the screw appears to have been cut back and has left a dimple in the center, I have screwbacks #13233, #14745 and #24965 and your piece would appear to me to be from this range. It appears the latch clasp is covering two numbers not one.
I think this is strange, so please can anyone shed any light on this piece?
Ron
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - DutchBoy - 08-04-2005
Mark and Ron,
Thanks for your insightful replies. I had also thought that the serial number was stamped earlier in the production of this piece and after that the stick pin was soldered on. Alternatively, I had heard about conversions to pinback from screwbackalso, and I think I see some evidence of that.
For a serial number this low, I believe the centre medallion should show 6 torches instead of 5.
A famous NJ dealer has one of these for sale that has the same situation. One number on the left side of the stick pin clasp, and two on the other side. It is being sold as a 3 digit serial number (it does have 6 torches however). Maybe the mystery continues....
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - redmedals - 08-05-2005
DutchBoy Wrote:Mark and Ron,Hi,
Thanks for your insightful replies. I had also thought that the serial number was stamped earlier in the production of this piece and after that the stick pin was soldered on. Alternatively, I had heard about conversions to pinback from screwbackalso, and I think I see some evidence of that.
For a serial number this low, I believe the centre medallion should show 6 torches instead of 5.
A famous NJ dealer has one of these for sale that has the same situation. One number on the left side of the stick pin clasp, and two on the other side. It is being sold as a 3 digit serial number (it does have 6 torches however). Maybe the mystery continues....
I would have to offer the opinion that it is not realistic that a six torch piece (which is a later issue for sure) can have a three digit serial number. Notwithstanding how someone else is describing or selling such a piece I would tend to be very leary of such a thing and pass on it if it is called a "low number". The piece you have shown us though, is an interesting conversion and has a place in a collection because it has to have been done by the original owner of the piece the pin and clasp are of the type seen on pinback Orders of Labour and several other Yugoslavian badges. The pinbacks of the Order of the Brotherhood are usually the double pin type. And these are mostly on the late issue six torch variants.
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - DutchBoy - 08-05-2005
Ron,
Again, impressive info! I will be sure to keep a note of it along with the item. I"m just starting out in Yugoslavian orders and I'm liking them very much. This will certainly maintain my interest in them.
By the way, why would someone convert from a screwback to a pinback...damage to the screwpost perhaps?
Thanks
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - redmedals - 08-05-2005
DutchBoy Wrote:Ron,Hi Matthijs,
Again, impressive info! I will be sure to keep a note of it along with the item. I"m just starting out in Yugoslavian orders and I'm liking them very much. This will certainly maintain my interest in them.
By the way, why would someone convert from a screwback to a pinback...damage to the screwpost perhaps?
Thanks
I can only speculate about it but here are some possible reasons to convert a screwback order to pinback.
1- As most of us may have experienced the threads of the screwpost wear out and no longer hold the screwplate making it difficult to keep in place? (as I am certain many collectors of Soviet Red Stars and Patriotic War orders can attest, we see things like rivets in the screw plate to tighten the fit back up, or conversely screwplates that just "float" loosely on the screwpost).
2- A screwback Order requires a rather big hole be put into a uniform or civilian jaquet to be worn and this hole remains when the screwback is removed? The collectors of uniforms can I am sure relate to this when they get a uniform without decorations and the holes are there for screwbacks.
3- A long screwpost may make the wearer feel discomfort when in use? This would also explain why some screwback oeders of all nations have screwposts that are cut short.
I would tend to think a combination of these reasons might have led someone to convert to a pinback. The pinbacks are less destructive to cloth and have no threads to wear out. With the added bonus that no length of screwpost is there to jab you in the ribs :) . This is my speculation on the reasons for a conversion.
Ron
Order "Brotherhood And Unity". - redmedals - 08-08-2005
Taz Wrote:Here is the Order of Brotherhood and Unity 1st Class.Hi everyone
Notice on the First Class the laurel wreath is gold as opposed to Silver on the second class.
Not a very good pic I'm afraid, If I find a better one I'll edit it.
Eddie.
Here is a slightly better scan of front and back of this order. I would also add to Taz's infoanother difference onthe 1st classis the red enamel for the ring of stars instead of the white enamel on the 2nd class of this order.
Ron