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+----- Thread: OGPU Badge (/Thread-OGPU-Badge)
OGPU Badge - Curator - 06-27-2012
Judging by the more common fake OGPU badge, this one I recently aquired looks promising. But I am not an expert.
Here's the front and back. Look how closely the thin fakes out there with the perfect enamel resemble this very well made badge. This one looks somewhat newer than the 20's - but it sure does look more like the other real Soviet era badges I've seen than the fake OGPU badge. Perhaps it's a later KGB "Chekist" badge?
These are the photos from the dealer I bought this from. I will post more detailed shots when I get my hands on it. That is, if it doesn't turn out to be a well-known fake - I leave that judgment to the far more experienced out there. One thing I do like - the script does not say "Workers of the World Unite." Anyone know what it says? I can't read Cyrillic.
Anyway - it's a well made badge IMO.
For me it was a bargain price. I may have even bid against some of you out there.
Lastly -any comments would be Greatly appreciated.
John
OGPU Badge - CtahhR - 06-27-2012
"За беспощадную борьбу с контрреволюцией"/"For relentless struggle against counter-revolution".
Welcome!
OGPU Badge - Curator - 06-28-2012
That is what was listed at the dealer - but I had to hear it from the real experts - that is Awesome!
That seems very promising for such a badge.
Thanks for your translation!
And thank you for welcoming me....
John
OGPU Badge - deValcourt - 06-30-2012
Welcome. Glad to see another collector of the more "romantic" or - as one good man has called this area - "sexy" badges of the security services.
As far as this one goes, I've learned not to get too excited about anything this potentially old until I have it in my hands and can scrutinize it under a good magnifier. It also helps if you have a high resolution camera (16+ megapixels) or a good scanner to capture an image of the badge and greatly enlarge details.
My only worry about this one is that it is in perfect shape - a very, very rare occurrence (though not impossible). Most often, the enamel suffers first with some chips or broken bits. Look closely for repaired or replaced enamel the minute you get it. Nonetheless, it looks very promising - though I can't help thinking of Henry's post about "The Fox in the Hen House.":confused:
I posted a copy on my website just because I was pressed for time and couldn't get a decent photo of an original. If yours does pass the "skeptic's tests" please let me know if I may replace my fake with photos of a real one - which is such a far more satisfying thing for viewers. (Collecting Soviet History - non-profit:)).
Phillip
OGPU Badge - desantnik - 07-01-2012
John, steer clear.
OGPU Badge - deValcourt - 07-01-2012
John, destantnik is absolutely correct. The more I looked at it today (after getting a full night's sleep), the more things are missing or unlikely for something that old. For the most part, I've written these off as possible fantasy pieces because I have never seen one that meets the "skeptic test" requirements. It doesn't mean they do not exist, but they are in no reference books I have on security service merit/honor badges.
Very early badges like this one is supposed to be, were almost exclusively made from silver by silversmiths - generally kept alive for their skills from the Imperial court. As I mentioned before, when they made such badges early on, the makers stamped their own markings on the badge. Also, there is practically no case where the enamel is in such pristine condition on such an allegedly old badge. At the very least, when looked at closely under magnification or in a high-resolution photo (as I mentioned before) there will be far more hairline cracks than you ever imagined and quite possibly tiny pieces of enamel missing. Even when the OGPU did commission brass-based badges - as in the case of some of the later versions of the Dzerzhinsky portrait 10th anniversary OGPU badges - though they were silver-plated and painted (no enamel) - the quality was superior to the one in the photos you have.
The last thing, and is usually not a major consideration with really old pieces is the screw nut (or wing nut in this case). It has no mint marks, which is not necessarily an automatic strike, but the soldering mess where the loops are attached is a bad sign.
On the bright side, it will look good in what I refer to as "educational displays" in which I have a few good copies of badges I never intend to afford. Some people use good copies of badges, medals or other awards as "place holders" until they acquire an original, but I know I will not be purchasing any of these pre-1938 security service badges unless I hit the lottery (which would be a miracle since I never buy a ticket:rolleyes:). You said it was what you considered a bargain price, so I hope you don't feel too bad about it. We live and learn. Learning is what this forum is about.
Phillip
OGPU Badge - Curator - 07-02-2012
Philip,
thanks for taking the time to examine the photos and also for providing your opinions - they are much appreciated.
If the badge in hand provides anything of interest - more than what is apparent so far from these two pictures - such as markings on the back of the wing nut, hairline cracks in the enamel, or for that matter even a "made in China" logo:D - I'll provide photos of them in case anyone is interested.
Thanks again!
John
OGPU Badge - deValcourt - 07-02-2012
By all means, post away. Everything is educational in some way or another.
Phillip
OGPU Badge - Curator - 07-02-2012
Very true, Phillip.
I'll hope for some redeeming characteristics on this badge - but I'm not going to bet on it. I have to admit you made a lot of good points in your post. Hoping for cracks in the enamel and marks on the other side of the wing nut seems like grasping at straws.
I'll look for the perfect enamel you mentioned - and if it is there, maybe I will post it - so others can avoid such mistakes in the future. The bright silver wreath also bothers me about this badge. I haven't been able to find anything similar on other Soviet era badges so far in my research. And it looks too new for something purportedly so old.
Like you said, everything is educational, in one way or another - unfortunately, sometimes we learn the hard way - or at least I know I sometimes do. I've collected badges from other countries, and one of the hardest lessons to learn in collecting - for me at least - is if it seems too good to be true, it usually is. But I think you'll admit, at first blush this is a very interesting badge.
However, like you said, finding a real pre-GPW security badge, and the only one of its kind in existence to boot, would be like winning the lottery.
So, I'll look at the bright side - for me it was bargain-priced, or I'll tell myself it was at any rate - since it would cost more than what I paid to have something this beautiful created by a jeweler. A jeweler in this country, at least. How's that for really stretching it to look at the positive side?
And I haven't seen one anywhere else, so if it's the forgery we suspect it is, at least its unique - at least for now. So it will look nice in the "educational" section of my collection, as you suggested.
And the last positive thing I'll focus on to cheer myself up, I did get a nice cold war bust of old Felix in the same auction for $25, so I'll display the two together.
How's that for being irrepressibly optimistic and tending to find good in everything? Geez.
Anyway, thanks again Phillip.
John
OGPU Badge - deValcourt - 07-03-2012
Curator Wrote:So, I'll look at the bright side - for me it was bargain-priced, or I'll tell myself it was at any rate - since it would cost more than what I paid to have something this beautiful created by a jeweler. A jeweler in this country, at least. How's that for really stretching it to look at the positive side?
And I haven't seen one anywhere else, so if it's the forgery we suspect it is, at least its unique - at least for now. So it will look nice in the "educational" section of my collection, as you suggested.
And the last positive thing I'll focus on to cheer myself up, I did get a nice cold war bust of old Felix in the same auction for $25, so I'll display the two together.
How's that for being irrepressibly optimistic and tending to find good in everything? Geez.
Anyway, thanks again Phillip.
John
John,
I am the eternal optimist. I've been burned at least a couple of dozen times. Then I found this forum, and to the best of my recollection, I have not been burned (at least in any significant way) since.
If you have a doubt or a question or concern - post it and we will come. My answers may not always be so verbose (yeah, right ;)), but you will get plenty of feedback from all sorts of folks.
On several points you are right about this badge being unique among the myriad of other, similar fakes: it has what is a far more appropriate text in the banner at the bottom and it also does not do what so many quick and cheap imitations do, which is "pretty up" the "CCCP" with an inner border and red paint (see the photo on my site for what I'm talking about). I've seen the same thing on copies of the early "Tractor Lenins" and a few other copies of early badges. When I get back to my house, I will look in one last book to see if this one was ever officially made, but since I used to study that book every minute I could when I first focused on this field and do not recall ever seeing this badge, I don't expect to find it. Sorry.:(
Nonetheless, I've never seen a decent bust of Dzerzhinsky for anything near $25, so you may have come out on top after all.
Phillip