Gymnasterka to identified please

Soviet · 11-18-2006, 01:27 AM

Is this an Army lieutnant Gymnasterka?

They say these are American button? :weird

Is it possible to date this Gymnasterka ?

Thank you for your help!

***desantnik*** · 11-18-2006, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soviet

Is this an Army lieutnant Gymnasterka?

I can't see the # of stars on the shoulderboards, but one stripe and one star is a JR LT, one strip two stars is a LT, and one stripe three stars is a SR LT.

DougD · 11-18-2006, 08:38 AM

Its a nice army pullover, 1943-1946. I don't think it can be nailed down any more than that.-DD

Soviet · 11-18-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desantnik

I can't see the # of stars on the shoulderboards, but one stripe and one star is a JR LT, one strip two stars is a LT, and one stripe three stars is a SR LT.

Here is the shoulderboard. So I guess this is a Junior Lieutenant.

What does the shovel and the other thing means?

***desantnik*** · 11-18-2006, 10:19 PM

Yes, JR LT. The additional device is for engineer sapper troops. If I'm not mistaken this should be on black shoulderboards, but Doug will know.

Does this mean he was a sapper assigned to an infantry unit or is it incorrectly put together?

Amerikashka · 11-18-2006, 11:03 PM

Black pogon all only for soldier engineer. this for leutinent of engineer who operate in fighting region, black edging, red color strip. Buttons of Lend-leas from USA. It, very difficult to say when made without to hold it in the hands. I have opinion; after war but soon and not after 195X.

DougD · 11-19-2006, 09:54 AM

Yes, the boards are fine, they are for field use with proper colors. The barnach insignia is actually a pretty rare one. The boards are 5 sided, so I tend to think the pullover is wartime ( yes they were used for a bit after), combined with the LL buttons. Its a nice pullover.

Dave · 11-19-2006, 10:14 AM

I believe those are Soviet made buttons, and not American ones. The buttons with those star marks (and eventually with the date number) were used well into the 1950s.

The only lend-lease buttons I've ever seen are clearly marked with the US manufacturer name on them. Even buttons this small should be maker marked, just as they did with the similar-sized US buttons.

My two cents...

Dave

DougD · 11-19-2006, 10:25 AM

Dave might be right about the buttons; i have seen these on M40 officers uniforms too, but 100% LL buttons do have the makers mark on back from NY or Chicago or wherever.

Soviet · 11-19-2006, 01:40 PM

I have spoke with a collector friend and he said that this unit device was not limited to black piped enigineering corp insignia and may also be seen on magenta piped infantry tabs and boards as well.

He also said that this shirt appears to be a dark olive wool. Unfortunately that is what will make it hard to tell if it is wartime or post war from just a photograph. Because buttons are easy to replace and the shoulder boards can be added at any time, it is difficult to say if it's really a WWII period uniform. So I'm puzzled once again. :(

11-18-2006, 08:38 AM	#3
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 51 Posts: 2,060	pullover Its a nice army pullover, 1943-1946. I don't think it can be nailed down any more than that.-DD

11-18-2006, 11:03 PM	#6
Amerikashka Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Queens Posts: 23	Black pogon all only for soldier engineer. this for leutinent of engineer who operate in fighting region, black edging, red color strip. Buttons of Lend-leas from USA. It, very difficult to say when made without to hold it in the hands. I have opinion; after war but soon and not after 195X. __________________ Complaints are suggestions heard second hand. Last edited by Amerikashka; 11-18-2006 at 11:09 PM.

11-19-2006, 09:54 AM	#7
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 51 Posts: 2,060	boards Yes, the boards are fine, they are for field use with proper colors. The barnach insignia is actually a pretty rare one. The boards are 5 sided, so I tend to think the pullover is wartime ( yes they were used for a bit after), combined with the LL buttons. Its a nice pullover.

11-19-2006, 10:25 AM	#9
DougD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NJ Age: 51 Posts: 2,060	buttons Dave might be right about the buttons; i have seen these on M40 officers uniforms too, but 100% LL buttons do have the makers mark on back from NY or Chicago or wherever.

11-19-2006, 01:40 PM	#10
Soviet Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Montréal Age: 43 Posts: 356	I have spoke with a collector friend and he said that this unit device was not limited to black piped enigineering corp insignia and may also be seen on magenta piped infantry tabs and boards as well. He also said that this shirt appears to be a dark olive wool. Unfortunately that is what will make it hard to tell if it is wartime or post war from just a photograph. Because buttons are easy to replace and the shoulder boards can be added at any time, it is difficult to say if it's really a WWII period uniform. So I'm puzzled once again. :( __________________ На Берлин!

11-18-2006, 10:19 PM	#5
*desantnik* Forum Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eurasia Posts: 2,340	Yes, JR LT. The additional device is for engineer sapper troops. If I'm not mistaken this should be on black shoulderboards, but Doug will know. Does this mean he was a sapper assigned to an infantry unit or is it incorrectly put together?

11-19-2006, 10:14 AM	#8
Dave Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: California Age: 49 Posts: 700	I believe those are Soviet made buttons, and not American ones. The buttons with those star marks (and eventually with the date number) were used well into the 1950s. The only lend-lease buttons I've ever seen are clearly marked with the US manufacturer name on them. Even buttons this small should be maker marked, just as they did with the similar-sized US buttons. My two cents... Dave

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