Veterans honoured for Arctic convoys

[McLenin]

From the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2522591.stm

British war veterans who kept open supply routes for the Russians amid perilous conditions in the Arctic, have been honoured for their bravery.

Some 17 Second World War veterans were presented with medals for their bravery in ensuring the safe passage of essential supplies to Russia.

The honours were presented by the Russian Ambassador who paid tribute to the "hero" sailors at a ceremony in London on Thursday.

At least 3,000 British men and women died during the convoy missions that proved crucial in the battle against Hitler.

Ambassador Grigory Karasin presented veterans with the 50th Anniversary of the Victory in the Great Patriotic War 1941-1945 medal, at a ceremony attended by British Foreign Office officials.

'Freezing cold and frightened'

He said: "It is our duty to say to the world that many years ago they were heroes.

"We will never forget the heroic efforts you have made."

Since 1995 Russia has awarded medals to about 2,500 veterans of the northern convoys, he said.

Receiving the award with his wife and family, Ron Skeates, from Lincoln, said: "It's always nice to think they appreciated what the lads did."

The 78-year-old, already a recipient of the Atlantic Star medal, said many men did not survive the arduous trips and those that did were pleased to receive the honour.

"If you were there in the freezing cold and frightened, you would have earned it," he added.

The British sailors risked their lives by carrying food and equipment to help their former Allies in the Soviet Union fight the war on the Eastern front.

Thursday's event is one of many held each year at the embassy since the 50th anniversary of the end of the war.

It involves former Royal and Merchant Navy veterans as well as commercial sailors.

The Arctic convoys began in 1941 after Hitler's Germany launched a surprise attack - Operation Barbarossa - on the Soviet Union.

The young sailors came under heavy enemy fire from the Luftwaffe and German U-boats.

Andrew Garrett, 78, from Gateshead, was a stoker on board a convoy to Russia.

'Proud'
Speaking at the ceremony, he said the below-zero temperatures were harsh and the work was dangerous, but he added: "I am very proud today. It's beautiful for Russia to recognise what we did."

Only last year British and Russian war veterans gathered in the Russian city of Archangel to mark the 60th anniversary of the convoys.

HMS Belfast, now moored on the River Thames near Tower Bridge in London, was at the forefront of the convoys and provided close range, heavy cover for the ships.

A total of 75 convoys made the trip between August 1941 and the end of the war, carrying four million tons of supplies, including 5,000 tanks and 7,000 aircraft for the Soviet forces on the Eastern Front.

More than half of the ships were sunk before reaching their destination.

During the war, the British merchant navy lost more than 30,000 men, and some 5,150 Allied merchant ships were sunk.

[Tal Inbar]

I found that a question was adressed to British PM regarding the awarding of the medal of defense of Soviet arctics to british veterans:


"Bob Spink: To ask the Prime Minister if he will meet a group of Royal Navy and Merchant Navy Russian convoy veterans to discuss the offer of a campaign medal made by the Russian Government. [75472]

The answer:

The Prime Minister: We have received no formal request from the Russian Government asking that permission be granted to issue the Defence of the Soviet Arctic Region Medal to British veterans. Were the Russian authorities formally to ask for this campaign medal to be officially recognised in this country, the Government would consider it carefully and discuss with relevant groups.

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Interesting!

Tal

[otlichnik]

From my recollection in dealing with the Russians, the 1985 anniversary medal was awarded by the Soviets to UK and Canadian convoy veterans but the Russians made no formal attempt to award the 1995 anniversary medal.

Shawn

[otlichnik]

I don't want to open a can of worms here. But, one fear of some Western countries when they severely limit the ability to wear foreign awards is the debasement of their own awards.

Different countries have different philosophies about awards. And these philosophies change over time. The anglo-commonwealth tradition has usually been to have few awards which had genuine meaning. By the last few decades of the USSR, the Soviet tradition had been to have lots and lots of awards ranging from those for geniune heroism to those for simply being alive.

Look at a hypothetical NCO who never left his home country or served in a campaign but who served in the military from say, 1946-1986. In the USSR he was eligible for at least a dozen medals (and orders). AF anniversary for 48, 58, 68, 78. Victory for 65, 75, 85. 100th Lenin in 70. Most likely one of the city anniversary medals. 10, 15 and 25 year service orders or medals.

In the Canadian military this same hypothetical NCO would be eligible for, we'll I don't know for sure but I am pretty certain that the answer is 0 to 2 medals max. On the recent 50th Jubliee of Queen Elizabeth II less than 1 in 10 Canadian soldiers received a jubilee medal - only those for long or outstanding service. And in the Canadian military such jubilee medals come around roughly 1 per few decades not 3 or so per decade.

It is a simple fact that in the Canadian philosophy one row of medals is an impressive career achievement and two rows is for a remarkable individual. Whereas for a Soviet officer this is piddling.

Thus different military's want to be very careful when allowing people to wear foreign medals.

Shawn

[vikingraider1]

Just to add to the above post...
The British use a systems of "bars" which are added for multiple awards of the medals. Whereas the Soviets would issue one medal for every instance of the award, the British would add a small bar to an existing medal so for example if you see the phrase "DFC with bar" it would indicate the award was won twice. This goes some way to explaing why Brits don't wear a lot of medals.
I have a mate who has been in the Navy over twenty years and fought in the Falklands. He only has three medals to his name.

[Mowles]

My father was a member of the Royal Navy in WW2 and talked sometimes about his experiences on convoys to Russia. He is now dead, but I would like to find out about any of the Russian medals that were awarded to RN veterans on those convoys. I dont know what ship he was on, or even what year he was involved. He did serve also in the Med and the Pacific, and I have no dates, and no documents showing where and when, and base this on his telling me of experiences when I was younger. Can anyone tell me where I could find info on crews of the ships, or where I can obtain his service records, and also whether he might have been eligible for any of the russian medals, and if I would be able to obtain them as his oldest son and oldest surviving child, as I did have an older sister who has died.

[desantnik]

I recommend you write the Russian Embassy and provide some proof of the service in question. That being said, I can't promise a reply, but they do try to take care of WWII veterans.

Several US and Brit vets received the 40th Anniversary of Victory in the Great Patriotic War medal back in '85. Hard to say whether the Russian Federation is still awarding those, moreover posthumously.

[Kirchgoens]

The US Consulate in St. Petersburg held a reception this past December to honor living Soviet veterans of the Murmansk convoys. As part of the meal, they received SPAM (a fond memory for many of them) and some good ole Jack Daniels. The US Ambassador, John Beyrle, came up from Moscow for the event (his father was famous as a US infantryman who was captured by the Germans, liberated by the Soviets, and then fought with the Soviets).

Surprisingly, many of them spoke of the Lend-Lease equipment they had (a subject not often touched on?). They are deeply appreciative, even today, of what they received. In this case, it included machineguns and old destroyers. One spoke of how sailors on his Lend-Lease ship put their flag at half-mast when word came down of FDR's death. Their ship commissar immediately made them put it back up with some strong words of castigation. Early Cold War event, during the war?

[Mowles]

Originally Posted by desantnik

I recommend you write the Russian Embassy and provide some proof of the service in question. That being said, I can't promise a reply, but they do try to take care of WWII veterans.

Several US and Brit vets received the 40th Anniversary of Victory in the Great Patriotic War medal back in '85. Hard to say whether the Russian Federation is still awarding those, moreover posthumously.

Thank you for the information, I have, since yesterday, discovered that the son of my sister, who passed away some years ago, has a copy of my Dads navy records, showing the ships he was on, and other info, so I hope to get a copy, compare it to the list of ships that were on the Arctic convoys, and perhaps I can then discover which convoys he was on, and then I will write to the Russian Embassy in Canberra, perhaps I may be lucky, and be able to get a medal for him to add to the others he was awarded - one never knows till one trys