Suspensions, Ribbons, Ribbon Bars And Order Of Precedence.

[Market Garden]

I’m not sure if I identified these ribbons correctly but if I did I would assume this is a fabricated bar due to the randomness of the ribbons. Can someone please review for correctness? I picked this up at the Great Western Show in Dallas, Texas last weekend for $12.00. Both the ribbons and backing are new.

1. Order of Red Banner
2. Order of Patriotic War 1st Class
3. Medal for Valor
4. Medal for Combat Service
5. Capture of Berlin
6. ???
7. Defense of Kiev
8. Defense of Odessa
9. Capture of Koenigsberg
10. Defense of Leningrad
11. Liberation of Prague

I have another bar too that I will post later after I try to figure out what ribbons are on it. I think they are labor awards and I am having a difficult time trying to identify.

John

[Bazanov]

I would like to say that no6 is liberation of warshawa and the one you think is defense of leningrad i would say that it is for the defense of Sevastopol or the partisan 2:class.
But to the ribbon:
I think that there are to much space between the medal stripes r what i should call it...
I also think that the medals are in the wrong order but im not shore.
The position of the "partisan" medal would indicate that there is the sevastopol medal.

I leave this to a more experienced collector

[Tal Inbar]

I think the ribbon bar is made up, as you can see no wear on most of the ribbons, not so likely combination etc.

T

[Esteban_cool]

I took these ribbons from a pic of Zhukov´s ones. Which awards are them?

Esteban

[Christophe]

Esteban,

Very good pic !!! ;)
On the original picture (attached) I have taken in the Berlin-Karlshorst Museum in July 2003, you can see the following ribbons on Zhukov's uniform (I hope having rightly identified them) :

(From top rows to bottom ones, and from left to right) :

* 1st row : 2 X Order of Victory.

* 2nd row : 4 X Order of Lenin - Order of the Red Banner.

* 3rd row : 2 X Order of the Red Banner - 2 X Order of Suvorov (1st class) - Medal 20 Years of Red Army.

* 4th row : Medal Defense of Leningrad - Medal Defense of Moscow - Medal Defense of Stalingrad - Medal Defense of Caucasus - Medal for Victory over Germany in GPW.

* 5th row : Medal Capture of Berlin - Medal Liberation of Warsaw - Medal 800 Years of Moscow - Medal 30 Years of Soviet Army and Navy - Order of the Red Banner of Combat (Mongolia).

* 6th row : Order of the Red Banner of Combat (Mongolia) - Order of Virtuti Military (Poland) - Order of the Grünwald Cross (Poland).

* 7th row : 2 X Order of the White Lion (Czechoslovakia) - War Cross 1939 (Czechoslovakia).

* 8th row : Medal for Warsaw 1939-1945 (Poland) - Medal for the Oder, Naisse and Baltic (Poland) - Order of the British Empire (UK).

* 9th row : Ordre de la Légion d'Honneur (France) - Legion of Merit (USA) - Croix de Guerre 1939-1945 (France).

* 10th row : Bronze Star (USA) - Medal China-USSR Friendship (China).

This Zhukov uniform can be dated from the beginning of the 50's, a time when Marshall Zhukov was no more the Chief of the SMAD (Soviet Military Administration in Germany), a post he occupied in Berlin-Karlhorst from March 1945 to March 1946.

Ch.

[KGBOfficer]

What do you think of this ribbon bar and what is its value?

[DougD]

stay away from these...they have little or no value and are made up of cut up ribbon parts...they are not "real" in the sense they were issued or earned. maybe $5 just to have, but no real collectors value.

DougD

[Tretov]

I've studied some photos of ribbon bars, and noted that the number of ribbons seem to differ depending on rank etc. I read earlier here in the forum that 4-place ribbon bars were reserved for higher officers, but how about 5-place ribbon bars? I have seen some marshals and marshals of USSR using the wider type, but at the same time some of them had just 4-ribbon wide ribbon bars. Were there any rules about this or was it up to the wearer to decide?

/Patrik

[Christophe]

No one seems to have the right answer... :confused:

Patrik's point is interesting. If you look at the Soviet Union Admirals and Marshals, you will notice they all seem to wear 4-ribbon wide ribbon bars, except Zhukov, Brezhnev, Kulikov, Jazov, and maybe others (?).
I have also found a pic of Beria - dated around 1945 - on which he wears a 5-ribbon bar, but where he doesn't seem to wear his orders (Suvorov 1st Class....) on the right chest... So...
The Soviet Union Marshals I mentioned are the only ones I have seen with 5-ribbon wide bars, and all in recent pictures (except Beria).

It is possible to see some of them in the excellent pic, dated 1978, posted by Dave in this thread dedicated to Ustinov :
http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/showt...ht=ustinov

Whats is also interesting is that this pic even shows Vladimir Fedorovich Tolubko - who was not a Soviet Union Marshal, but a Chief Marshal of Artillery - wearing a 5-ribbon wide bar !!

What are the regulations about the wear of these ribbon bars ?
Is it defined in the official texts, as for the medals and orders, and which ones ? Has it changed in the most recent years ?
or :
Is it at the wearer's choice ? And in this last hypothesis, is it linked to the number of ribbons (apparently not always...) ?

Shawn, Dave, others, any idea ?

Many thanks.

Ch.

[Esteban_cool]

In the books of the USSR Defense Ministry (1989, for example) there are sections that talk about ribbon bars regulations from pages 81 to 84 (Stats 193, 194 and 195). I can just understand some words in the text so I can´t say if this can help, but someone who speaks russian will do.

Esteban