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Id be interested to know how it was taken out of Russia, and what the family really got for it. Im sure a fraction of what is being asked for it.
And for the historic value, how long before Russia starts going after these valuble groupings that have been taken out of Russia ilegally??
desantnik Wrote:Your comment on having enough money is ironic. The problem is almost no one has enough money for sets like today unless prices crash. It is unfortunate, since in the future such sets may have to be broken up if the seller wants/needs to unload them in a hurry. When I mention irony, I remember lamenting over the situation in the early 90s when the Russians would break up sets to sell because none of the Russian middlemen initially had that kind of money over there to buy the sets complete so they were broken up to sell quickly. In those days, no one except the "rich" end buyers - Americans, Western Europeans, etc had the funds to purchase nice sets complete. Nowadays, yesterday's former "rich" end buyers don't have the required money for nice sets and only super wealthy Russians can buy those kind of sets.
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rboomsma Wrote:Id be interested to know how it was taken out of Russia, and what the family really got for it. Im sure a fraction of what is being asked for it.
And for the historic value, how long before Russia starts going after these valuble groupings that have been taken out of Russia ilegally??
When the Soviet Union fell, there were a couple of fellows that had some REALLY good contacts that moved some really (REALLY) nice stuff out of the country from top Generals and Marshals. The massive Marshal Koldunov group I had was only a part of the total group that was taken out - I believe his awards are out there as well. I know of at least one 3x cavalier of the Order of Suvorov 1st that they got out, as well as several other similar groups, and bunches of general/admiral groups. When that triple Suvorov 1st group came out in the early 1990's, I know that it sold for $100,000 back then... A bargain now, but back when you could get a nice, complete HSU group for under $5000 the price was close to insane. Just imagine what the group's worth now! (And yes, from what I've heard, it's still together.)
These groups were mostly obtained from the families of the generals/marshals/admirals as they were offered respectable amounts of US dollars for what had. You can't eat medals!
Just a couple notes on the group that's being offered here:
-It's unusual how long this guy lived. I don't see a death date, but with a 1987 award of the Red Star, and the fact that he was born in 1897 would put him at 90 years. Quite old for a fellow who had a lot of experiences that undoubtedly adversely affected his health!
-He was the head of Signals in the late 1950's, and was still around for the 1968 20th anniversary of the Patriotic War. He must have had a falling out with someone as 1968 was a popular vintage for HSU titles being awarded to "politically connected" general officers that had served in the War, but hadn't earned one back then.
-If I were a betting man, I'd say that his second Red Star was a late award for the 50th Anniversary of the Revolution.
-Regarding the price... Looking back from next year, this might be a bargain now, but it's only a bargain if you can find a buyer for it... 
Dave
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Dave Wrote:...
-Regarding the price... Looking back from next year, this might be a bargain now, but it's only a bargain if you can find a buyer for it...
Dave
In my opinion, if you buy a group like this - you are stuck with it!
Chances you'll be able to move such expensive group on your own are slim, and going back to the dealers - you'd have to take heavy discount to what you paid.
Again, I am looking at this from my prospective, but it's totally different approach if you are one of Oligarch-type collectors, to whom $200,000-300,000 is more manageable amount...
William
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It is a extremely nice group but I dont think I can afford it, sorry. However, I have seen only the photo that is posted in this thread. I looked at the website of this dealer, but was unable to find it there :confused: . If someone could please drop me a PM with the link, I would be happy.
As with all these nice huge groups, I feel like a child outside a candy-shop, just looking through the window at the goodies which are out of reach.
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Its under the heading "top soviet military orders"
I still would like to know what kind of mark up (profit) he is getting.
Tretov Wrote:It is a extremely nice group but I dont think I can afford it, sorry. However, I have seen only the photo that is posted in this thread. I looked at the website of this dealer, but was unable to find it there :confused: . If someone could please drop me a PM with the link, I would be happy.
As with all these nice huge groups, I feel like a child outside a candy-shop, just looking through the window at the goodies which are out of reach.
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Tretov Wrote:As with all these nice huge groups, I feel like a child outside a candy-shop, just looking through the window at the goodies which are out of reach.
Sharing feelings my friend... The only difference is that here in Japan there are no candy shops... 
Esteban
There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight
The Who, Won't get fooled again
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Mark-up is probably in the 20% - 30%
Rusty.
"Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin
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Member #193
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Good news  ... and now, let's go back to William's thread and this extraordinary group.
I have one question : is there in Russia the possibility for the Government (representing Museums or other institutional bodies) to buy this group in priority, with a right of "first look" ? A right of pre-emption ?
Ch.
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Christophe Wrote:...
I have one question : is there in Russia the possibility for the Government (representing Museums or other institutional bodies) to buy this group in priority, with a right of "first look" ? A right of pre-emption ?
Ch.
That would be awesome!
However, dealing in Soviet awards is still illegal according to current Russian laws. As such - several complications I see here:
1) The dealer is at risk that the governemnt will exercise it's right to confiscate the group,
2) the family may be facing criminal prosecution (as citizens under jurisdiction of curent laws) for selling the group.
William
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new world Wrote:However, dealing in Soviet awards is still illegal according to current Russian laws. (...) William
William,
Is it dealing in Soviet awards that is illegal in Russia... or exporting them ? In other words, is dealing allowed until the items traded remain in Russia, as part of the patrimony ?
And, can a family sell a group to a Russian Museum, or has it to be given for free after the death of the recipient...?
Many thanks in advance.
Cheers.
Ch.
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