Soviet Patches Collection 1947-92

[pastfinder]

Dang, now I wish I had the money back then to buy that uniform. Best I could do is save the picture of it, haha.

[desantnik]

G'day Paul,

So, if I understand your logic, then, the 82nd & 101st Airborne qualified troops who were Airmobile in Viet Nam were not really Airborne troops because their knees were only in the wind blowing through the open doors of the UH-1D helicopters delivering them to their Landing Zones and you are applying this logic to the Soviet Air Assault Troops......or am I misunderstanding you?

Cheers,

Jim

Jim, it is not just my logic - but military logic which may be the source of the confusion :D Airborne and air assault (formerly air mobile) are two different types of units and operations. Although confusing, the 82d Airborne is a true airborne division; the 101st Airborne was a true airborne division, but has been air assault since the late 50's I think. The 101 retains its "airborne" title as an honorific remembering its WWII service.

To be in the 82d, an individual must be airborne qualified and the unit is tasked to conduct large scale airborne operations (as well as air assault operations:)). In the 101st, airborne qualification is not a pre-requisite and the unit hasn't conducted an airborne operation for at least 40+ years (for argument's sake, although I think they have a demonstration parachute team and maybe a recon platoon or something that jumps, but 99+% of the unit has no tactical ability to conduct a parachute operation).

Thus, although it's on the unit's patch and they are called the 101st Airborne to pay homage to unit's WWII legacy, no 101st "Screaming Eagle" can call himself "airborne", unless he is also a qualified parachutist.

In your Vietnam example, the 82d trooper at least parachuted sometime before coming to the unit and could have been called to in Vietnam, however his 101st counterpart probably had never parachuted and his unit could not have conducted an airborne operation, though it did conduct plenty of air assault (then called air mobile) operations.

In the same way, although these Soviet guys are wearing green "airborne" patches with the representation of a parachute on them, they are not airborne since they are not wearing parachutist badges and never jumped. Russian military refer to airborne forces as vozduzhnye desantniki and the air assault forces as shturmovye desantniki.

[desantnik]

*DshB are regular army airborne units you don't find them in Border guards.
For exemple the Border unit of Kerki in Tadjikistan near the afghan border had 1 DshMG and 3 MMG (literrally Motorised Manoeuvre Group).
*It is true that 99% of the patches sold on E*** are fakes made in Ukraine.
*To get back to DshMG,these were heliborne transported units,therefore none is jump qualified like a regular paratrooper.
Here is a pic of a DshMG trooper from the Central Asian district,wearing no jump badge at all,just the usual border qualification and units badges....

So how do DShB differ from Soviet VDV airborne units? Are they like independent airborne battalions and/or brigades not assigned to an airborne division?

[OKP]

So how do DShB differ from Soviet VDV airborne units? Are they like independent airborne battalions and/or brigades not assigned to an airborne division?

My mistake Desantnik!!!!You are right I was too quick in my posting:(.
DShB are Air Assault units (Battalions or Brigades).
In afghanistan there was the 56th Independant Air assault Brigade.Furthermore the 70th and the 66th Motorized Rifle Brigades had DShB bats (for exemple the 66th Motorifle had 3 DshB bats and 3 Infantry Bats).
Looks like not all the DshB troopers were parachute trained....:D

[russiamilitaria]

Hello Jim!
You have very good collection!
But I see some fakes/copies/new-made ones in your collection:
1) VDV at green. This type is real (used by "DShMG" - "desantno-shturmovie manevrennie gruppi", "десантно-штурмовые маневренные группы" - "Air Assault Manoeuvre Groups" of Border units; also such patches were worn by soldiers of Vitebsk Airborne division in 1991), but you has a copy one. Have a look at details of hammer, sickle, star etc. As it was said before by desantnik they look modern-made. Real ones VDV at green are rare.
2) All patches at green are new-made exept general Border Guard patch and "Voentorg" ("Военторг") patch (last one was not used by Border guards! It was worn at dress suites for vendors in Soviet shops of Ministry of Defense - Voentorgs). "ГО" at green (and at other colours exept khaki) was never exist in USSR, it's 100% fantasy. I think that "СССР" at green is fantasy too.
3) All patches at deep blue ("KGB blue" :) ) are new-made exept general KGB patch. "Военторг", "ГО" and "K" here are 100% fantasy ones! I think that "СССР" at deep blue is fantasy too.
4) Red ones are good, but cavalry at red is 100% fantasy! I think that patch with crossed hammers and cross at red are fantasy too. Is medical patch at maroon fabric-made or dembel-made? Embroided patches are very good! They were used by units of Honored Guards!
5) Blue - is ok, but if musical one is fabric-made it is new-made fantasy!
6) Round patches and patches of Interior troops... Can you make detail scan of these patches? Now I can tell you only that "ВВ" patch is fantasy one!
7) Patches at black. All is ok, but but if musical one is fabric-made it is new-made fantasy!
8) Other patches are good and nice! I really liked stripe-patches! You have full set of stripe-patches for Ground cadets and Air cadets!

You mentioned in this topic Colonel Alexey Stepanov's book, "Soviet Arm Badges 1920-91 (I)". It is a very good book, manual for collector of soviet patches. Author described most patches existed in USSR. Patches of 1969-91 are described at 99.99%. So all patches 1969-91 that are sold as RARE and EXCLUSIVE and that was not described at this book are 99% fake and fantasy!

[centaur32]

G'day Alex,
Thanks for your critique of my collection. I just have a couple questions regarding your comments and some observations of my own.
1) VDV on Green (DShMG): What exactly do you mean by,"Have a look at details of hammer, sickle, star etc."? What is wrong here?
2) I have ГО patches on khaki and grey, with the letters in red and yellow. The CCCP on green was observed by a friend of mine in the '70s & '80s.
3) Like the CCCP on green, the CCCP on cornflower blue was seen, as well.
4) The CD, Medical and Rescue patches exist on red, black, and Maroon. Thanks for the kind comments about the hand-embroidered patches on red. The Medical patch on a magenta/brown/maroon (take your pick) was seen in 1975 and mine is thermal moulded latex on a felt-like base fabric with a khaki cloth backing.
5) It is thermal moulded latex.
6) Yes, I'll post the scans below. I've always had my doubts about the "ВВ" patch.
7) It's also thermal moulded latex.
8) Thanks.

[centaur32]

Alex: Here's the scans you asked for.....I think.

[centaur32]

To russiamilitaria

G'day Alex,
Further to our current conversation; Two of my KGB Border Troops patches that you expressed your concern about, i.e., ГО & СССР, are both BOEHTOPГ price stamped 72 kopeks, as illustrated below. Of course, not all genuine patches of this period were BOEHTOPГ price stamped, but it's nice when they are.

Incidentally, if any of you other guys want to join this discussion, please do. I would certainly welcome your input, as I'm sure Alex would.

[centaur32]

Here's my KGB Border Troops "CCCP" patch, as referred to above.

[DougD]

Russiamilitaria,

You stated that the Green "CCCP" patches were fantasy; were, in your opinion, ANY of the "CCCP" patches genuine? If so, what were they for? What troops in the Soviet Army, Air Force, KGB, etc. would have worn them?

DougD