Cavalry Visor

[Lapa]

Doug,

Please do not mix the different caps here. The one I am specifically referring to is the one at the top of this thread, and only this one, not the ones you showed in the other threads or subsequebtly; I hope that this is clear to all.

I have unfortunately handled only a very limited number of these caps, that is if we talk about original ones :D On the other hand, I have handled a sizeable number of recently produced ones in the StP area, and I must confess that I am friend with one of those dreaded "cap artists".

This gentleman specializes exclusively in Imperial and early Soviet caps, and has already a rather frightening trophy board, some of his production having been published (as originals!!!) by such well respected specialists as G. Gorokhov (especially in his latest book on the Imperial Guard); two of his Imperail caps underwent expertise by Russian Museum specialists (I'll pass on the reasons how and why they ended up being assessed, that's an other story) and were given a clean bill of health ("fully original caps with 10 to 15% of restorations") - a result he considers his crowing achievement :rolleyes. So far, he's been practicing his art for close to 15 years, and has reach his present level of mastery about 8~10 years ago.

To make things short, he uses exclusively period items (fabric, thread, etc with the exception of the visors, which are good-quality modern production), period equipment (yes, he uses a turn-of-the-century sewing machine for his Imperial production and a mid-1920s one for his Soviet creations), and has come up with what is IMHO one of the most convincing ageing process to date, although extremely careful examination may reveal some, let's call them "less comfortably feeling", specificities: wear pattern on the visor, heavy dust, stamps (he has a rather large range of them...), appearance of wear- defects in fabric, etc. All of his caps have original period hardware: buttons, badges, etc.

From what I can see and IMHO, we are dealing here with one of his lost children.

Marc

[DougD]

Marc,

Of course we are all entitled to our opinions in this varied hobby. I base mine on having had in and examining the originals for the past 12 years (such as those I posted), and comparing with the first one in the thread; I draw a different conclusion than you do based on different experiences. If what you say is true (just as you tell buyers that they should be wary of 'stories' from those selling an item, I would say that can also be turned around), then you are basically saying that they can make perfect fakes (all original material, techniques, etc.), a task that has eluded those in the TR area of collecting for the past 60 years. Again, if this is true, then I agree and you would just have to go with your feeling when you decide to buy or not to buy an item. That’s part of the hobby.

DougD

[Lapa]

Doug,

All I can say is that I saw it with my own eyes. For some that may be relevant, for others that may mean nothing, it is entirely up to the individual.

Marc

[Commissar]

Wow there is so much debate on those 1920's caps.
To be honest I always thought those hats would be some of the only genuine hats, as in due to the scarce-ness of their "breed" that they just would be considered true blue genuine.
I suppose theres copies for all kinds.

[DougD]

Marc,

I am sure you have reasons for the conclusions you come to. I agree with you that each must judge for themselves.
Doug

[ekclete]

Here is a scan of a color copy a vendor sent me. Not sure where it came from but it also has a guide to the units. I can scan those as well if needed. I have a few of this era and will show some pictures sometime. Thanks Clete

[DougD]

Thanks for posting the chart Clete!

DougD

[Jeffrey Meffert]

If you can fool musuem curators, I guess the rest of us poor schlumps don't stand a chance...
What a wonderful world this would be if these folks took all the time and energy they spent duping others on making the world a better place.

[DougD]

Hi Jeff,

Ask the TR collectors, they are always debating whats real and repro, even in such places as the IWM. On another forum, a TR forum, there was a great thread about possible fake SS items in large museums such as the IWM and West Point.

DougD

[Jeffrey Meffert]

Unless the veteran personally handed you their uniform or award, I guess all collecting is ultimately faith based.
Even then, grandpa may be trying to pull a fast one...

Rules for Third Reich militaria are easy. If you are buying, it's "guaranteed" real for which you pay a premium. If you are selling, it must be fake and must be discounted.