08-05-2004, 02:21 AM
Doug do not get irritated so quickly.
Your and your friend making the book and I can not wait to see it. But I hope you do not want to make laughing matter like Laslo Bekesi or book with annoying “discrepancies” like David.
This is only reason why I’m here.
Bottom line is, on yours uniform WRONG shoulder boards.
Under no circumstances in million years such shoulder boards could be on this uniform.
With the same successes you can attache navy admiral or any other shoulder boards.
You can delete this massage or just ask and I never going to write to this forum again.
Otherwise:
Military rank of COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY existed, equal to the military rank of GENERAL-MAJOR or REAR-ADMIRAL.
In ALL documents military personal listed with military ranks they have. When subordinates address people with such rank (or any rank for that matter) they call them :” Comrade COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY”, or :”Comrade GENERAL-MAJOR”, or :”Comrade REAR-ADMIRAL”.
These people may hold different positions in different departments.
Some examples to illustrate.
Deconozov V.I. - 2 December 1938 was promoted to the rank of COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY of 3rd rank wile he was head of section of GUGB, then in 1939 he was transferred to commissariat of foreign affairs, and wile retaining his military rank of COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY of 3rd rank served as ambassador in Germany until JULY 1941. (after outbreak of the war he along with other embassy personal was “shipped” through Turkey back to Russia) and he served as deputy of People’s commissar of foreign affairs.
He was given appropriate diplomatic rank only in august of 1943. Following your logic he should be wearing diplomatic uniforms with GUGB insignia.
Belskiy L.I. COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY of 2rd rank.
Head of Soviet militia (GURKM) since 1935. Following you logic he should be wearing militia uniform with GUGB insignia.
Frinovsky M.I. – komkor in 1935, by 1938 Komandarm of the 1st rank.
(Please mind that no such rank as komkor of frontier troops or general-major of NKVD troops ever existed.) Rank was just general-xxxxx or komkor regardless of whether it’s army or NKVD.) Then he was transferred as a head of Commissariat of the NAVY. While retaining his rank he was wearing NAVY uniform. Following you logic he should be wearing NAVY uniform with GUGB insignia.
NKVD personal was transferred from one department to another and they may(or may not) retain GUGB military rank, BUT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES they can mix uniform and insignia from different departments. You have to understand that NKVD troops it’s different department of NKVD, the same like militia or fire department or 39 other departments and it’s impossible to wear one insignia with other uniform. Not in million years.
Once again do not get irritated so quickly. Read your own message bellow:
Vadim
P.S. Belt is wrong tooooo.
Your and your friend making the book and I can not wait to see it. But I hope you do not want to make laughing matter like Laslo Bekesi or book with annoying “discrepancies” like David.
This is only reason why I’m here.
Bottom line is, on yours uniform WRONG shoulder boards.
Under no circumstances in million years such shoulder boards could be on this uniform.
With the same successes you can attache navy admiral or any other shoulder boards.
You can delete this massage or just ask and I never going to write to this forum again.
Otherwise:
Military rank of COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY existed, equal to the military rank of GENERAL-MAJOR or REAR-ADMIRAL.
In ALL documents military personal listed with military ranks they have. When subordinates address people with such rank (or any rank for that matter) they call them :” Comrade COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY”, or :”Comrade GENERAL-MAJOR”, or :”Comrade REAR-ADMIRAL”.
These people may hold different positions in different departments.
Some examples to illustrate.
Deconozov V.I. - 2 December 1938 was promoted to the rank of COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY of 3rd rank wile he was head of section of GUGB, then in 1939 he was transferred to commissariat of foreign affairs, and wile retaining his military rank of COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY of 3rd rank served as ambassador in Germany until JULY 1941. (after outbreak of the war he along with other embassy personal was “shipped” through Turkey back to Russia) and he served as deputy of People’s commissar of foreign affairs.
He was given appropriate diplomatic rank only in august of 1943. Following your logic he should be wearing diplomatic uniforms with GUGB insignia.
Belskiy L.I. COMMISSAR OF STATE SECURITY of 2rd rank.
Head of Soviet militia (GURKM) since 1935. Following you logic he should be wearing militia uniform with GUGB insignia.
Frinovsky M.I. – komkor in 1935, by 1938 Komandarm of the 1st rank.
(Please mind that no such rank as komkor of frontier troops or general-major of NKVD troops ever existed.) Rank was just general-xxxxx or komkor regardless of whether it’s army or NKVD.) Then he was transferred as a head of Commissariat of the NAVY. While retaining his rank he was wearing NAVY uniform. Following you logic he should be wearing NAVY uniform with GUGB insignia.
NKVD personal was transferred from one department to another and they may(or may not) retain GUGB military rank, BUT UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES they can mix uniform and insignia from different departments. You have to understand that NKVD troops it’s different department of NKVD, the same like militia or fire department or 39 other departments and it’s impossible to wear one insignia with other uniform. Not in million years.
Once again do not get irritated so quickly. Read your own message bellow:
Quote:As for debate, that is why we are here, to discuss these thing. Not everyone comes to the forum knowing everything ( though some seem to).You welcome
Thank you for the lesson on the NKVD, but I did know these things before you arrived. Thanks again for the refresher course.
Vadim
P.S. Belt is wrong tooooo.
