Medal "For Strengthening Of Military Cooperation". - Page 3

otlichnik · 05-29-2003, 02:17 AM

On the lack of a stamp.

IF the signatures are the same, and it appears so at first glace but you would have to do a proper examination in person, then maybe it was issued by Shchelokov on a visit to the DDR and no stamp was handy.

If it was just routinely issued then there is no excuse for not having a stamp. However, if the document was signed and handed over in person in the context of some sort of event or visit or other ceremony then nicities like stamping the document may get overlooked.

No one is going to stop the Minister of the Interior from handing an unstamped document over to an allied General.

On the other hand, if the signatures don't match then a fake is likely.

Shawn

Christophe · 05-29-2003, 03:36 AM

Shawn,

Your conclusions are close to mine (as far as I have some...).

* The signature seems (is ? Always prudent) very correct and the right one. They match.

* The signature is not done with the same ink as the rest of the document (as usual...). I would say : a positive sign...

So, I came to a very close conclusion to yours, the only logical explanation I have : Doc + medal probably awarded on the occasion of a visit in DDR, but no stamp handy, and you have told the story...

For many reasons, I do think it is a real one (I'm not concerned about it...) but would like to understand why there is no stamp...
I exclude the idea of a fake : it would be so easy to add a stamp whatever it is !!!

I will investigate further.

Shawn, many thanks for your help and positive contribution.

Ch.

otlichnik · 05-30-2003, 02:49 AM

Christophe,

I have been involved in the diplomatic world for the past 6 years now. I can tell you that when it comes to Ministers and that level of VIP many official considerations often get over-ridden.

It is not a good career move for some little Captain aide-de-camp to say to his Minister "but sir, you can't hand it over yet it is not stamped".

Obviously, it is always good to be suspicious and never to believe in such "fairy tales" if there is other questionable evidence. But, given tha the doc looks good, and the signature looks good, it is a strong possibility.

Alexei, any views???

Shawn

Christophe · 05-30-2003, 03:34 AM

Shawn,

I'm more than happy to believe in "fairy tales".

Thanks for your input, valuable knowledge... and time !

Ch.

Lauri · 07-29-2005, 02:30 AM

Hi,

So now I’m holding in my hand something what I have seen before only in the photos. Booklet is 100 % original.( Ministry of defence stamp, D. Ustinov signature ) The only question- one collector who has two of this booklets is asking USD 500 for this booklet. I know it’s megagigasuper rare and probraly the last time when someone is offering something like this. Question is- is it worth of this price… opinions please, take or not to take?!?!

Regards,

Lauri

Photos I made quickly with digital camera, so quality is not the best!

Alfred · 07-29-2005, 05:13 AM

Lauri,

you have to make the decision.
For 500 $ you get a lot of other things / awards. But sometimes there are things you wanted to have and the price is equal.
So .... :confused:

regards
Andreas

P.S. I would pass and would buy me a 2nd red banner on suspension.

Lauri · 07-29-2005, 05:27 AM

but on the other hand... i have and i can always buy myself one more second red banner on suspension ( even that the price is raising dramatically, but they are still in the market )...but can i buy for my self this paper in the future?::: :cool:

new world · 07-29-2005, 06:08 AM

Lauri,

It's your decision, but I would take it.

Chances you'll see another one for sale are slim. On the other hand - you'll always find RB-2.

William

Christophe · 07-29-2005, 03:55 PM

Lauri,

I would take the same decision as William (he gave the arguments exactly in the same manner I would have done).

In simple words : if it is real (not faked) : take it !!

Lauri,

Just to add this would be a very nice birthday gift !!!! Think about it on this beautiful day...

Whatever you decision will be (and it will be YOUR decision) : Happy Birthday !!

Cheers.

Ch.

ericlida · 11-23-2012, 06:12 AM

They are RRRRRRRRRR
How about this one? :D
The document it self is rare, but if you add the name on the document :cool:

07-29-2005, 03:55 PM	#29
Christophe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Paris - Berlin Age: 61 Posts: 1,208	Lauri, I would take the same decision as William (he gave the arguments exactly in the same manner I would have done). In simple words : if it is real (not faked) : take it !! Lauri, Just to add this would be a very nice birthday gift !!!! Think about it on this beautiful day... Whatever you decision will be (and it will be YOUR decision) : Happy Birthday !! Cheers. Ch. Last edited by CtahhR; 03-04-2012 at 10:17 PM.

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05-29-2003, 02:17 AM	#21
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	On the lack of a stamp. IF the signatures are the same, and it appears so at first glace but you would have to do a proper examination in person, then maybe it was issued by Shchelokov on a visit to the DDR and no stamp was handy. If it was just routinely issued then there is no excuse for not having a stamp. However, if the document was signed and handed over in person in the context of some sort of event or visit or other ceremony then nicities like stamping the document may get overlooked. No one is going to stop the Minister of the Interior from handing an unstamped document over to an allied General. On the other hand, if the signatures don't match then a fake is likely. Shawn

05-29-2003, 03:36 AM	#22
Christophe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Paris - Berlin Age: 61 Posts: 1,208	Shawn, Your conclusions are close to mine (as far as I have some...). * The signature seems (is ? Always prudent) very correct and the right one. They match. * The signature is not done with the same ink as the rest of the document (as usual...). I would say : a positive sign... So, I came to a very close conclusion to yours, the only logical explanation I have : Doc + medal probably awarded on the occasion of a visit in DDR, but no stamp handy, and you have told the story... For many reasons, I do think it is a real one (I'm not concerned about it...) but would like to understand why there is no stamp... I exclude the idea of a fake : it would be so easy to add a stamp whatever it is !!! I will investigate further. Shawn, many thanks for your help and positive contribution. Ch.

05-30-2003, 02:49 AM	#23
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	Christophe, I have been involved in the diplomatic world for the past 6 years now. I can tell you that when it comes to Ministers and that level of VIP many official considerations often get over-ridden. It is not a good career move for some little Captain aide-de-camp to say to his Minister "but sir, you can't hand it over yet it is not stamped". Obviously, it is always good to be suspicious and never to believe in such "fairy tales" if there is other questionable evidence. But, given tha the doc looks good, and the signature looks good, it is a strong possibility. Alexei, any views??? Shawn

05-30-2003, 03:34 AM	#24
Christophe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Paris - Berlin Age: 61 Posts: 1,208	Shawn, I'm more than happy to believe in "fairy tales". Thanks for your input, valuable knowledge... and time ! Ch.

07-29-2005, 05:13 AM	#26
Alfred Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germany, Cologne Posts: 626	Lauri, you have to make the decision. For 500 $ you get a lot of other things / awards. But sometimes there are things you wanted to have and the price is equal. So .... :confused: regards Andreas P.S. I would pass and would buy me a 2nd red banner on suspension.

07-29-2005, 05:27 AM	#27
Lauri Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Tallinn- Estonia Age: 49 Posts: 99	but on the other hand... i have and i can always buy myself one more second red banner on suspension ( even that the price is raising dramatically, but they are still in the market )...but can i buy for my self this paper in the future?::: :cool:

07-29-2005, 06:08 AM	#28
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	Lauri, It's your decision, but I would take it. Chances you'll see another one for sale are slim. On the other hand - you'll always find RB-2. William

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