Mosin Nagant sling

[asjemenou]

Exactly, the "SA" stamps indicate that the weapons were captured/used by the Finns. I was asking this because the Finns were still using sling swivels on their Mosin Nagants during WWII. As far as I know it was not usual during WWII in the Red army to use sling swivels on the Mosin Nagant rifles and carbines. Of course there can be an exceptional case. I also heard that they sometimes used PPSh-41 sub machinegun slings on the Mosin Nagant carbines.

[bdgfate]

The wire sling swivels shown on Jeffrey Meffert's Mosin are not Finnish. Those ones are characterized by a threaded bolt that goes thru the sling slot. The ones shown are from the Balkans.

Here are a few slings of mine that might help you identify WW2 and pre WW2 slings.

The first is a M38 carbine sling (also used on M44s) with leather reinforcements:

[bdgfate]

Here is a 1945-dated M91/30 sling:

[Jeffrey Meffert]

Always an opportunity to learn something new

[asjemenou]

This is going to be a very interesting topic. In my first reaction of this topic I was asking or their could be a difference between a (pre) war dated and a post war dated Mosin Nagant rifle sling. In the mean time I know that the only difference between them is the (dated) stamp. During WWII the Red army used one type of sling for all Mosin Nagant rifles and carbines. It is been said that because of a shortage of Mosin Nagant rifle slings, the PPSh-41 sub machinegun slings should also been used on the Mosin Nagant rifles and carbines. This standard Mosin Nagant rifle sling is made of green or khaki colored webbing and two brown leather “dog collars”.
The Finnish WWII armed forces used a few other types of rifle slings for their (captured) Mosin Nagants. For their older Mosin Nagant types they also used swivel slings (see picture). These swivel slings are different than the metal loops on the Mosin Nagant rifle of Jeffrey. In that way Bdgfate is right, the metal loops are not Finnish. I have no idea what kind of metal loops they really are.
After the war some East European countries copied the Mosin Nagant M1891/30 (Snayper) and M44 carbine together with a matching sling. The difference between these copied rifles and the original Russian rifles can easily been seen by the markings.
Some models of the East European Mosin Nagant rifle slings are not marked. Sometimes this is making it very difficult to recognize them. Especially the Hungarian Mosin Nagant rifle slings they are almost the same as the Russian variant. These Hungarian variants can be marked with a circled number 02. The Polish also had their own M44 carbine copy together with a matching sling. An example of this Polish sling can be seen in the pictures of Bdgfate’s M44 carbine. I do not know exactly or it is a post war or a pre war variant. Before the war the Polish had their own Mosin Nagant (WZ 91/98/25) variant. The rifle sling on the M91/30 rifle is a Russian variant. What kind of M44 carbine is it exactly Bdgfate?

[bdgfate]

Hello again. The M44 I posted pictures of is a Soviet, 1945-dated (reputedly a vet bring back, but unpapered, so... :rolleyes: ) Izhevsk M44. However, the sling is not original to the rifle, so I suppose the issue is moot.

The sling is not Polish as far as I know. Instead, it is of pre-war to midwar vintage and Soviet Russian origin. Now the dog collars, I'm not so sure of, as pre-war/early war used sewn, not riveted, construction, but they did come with the sling and both items show wear and stretching of the leather that indicates they've been together for some time.

Polish Mosin slings were essentially the buckled PPSH type ones that they threaded thru the sling slots.

There were also "expedient slings" made during the midwar period for both M91/30s and carbines. These are like the buckled PPSH slings, but use leather buckles and laces to tie them together. Below is an example of that type.

p.s. The swivels you posted are indeed the Finnish ones I was referring to, as opposed to the steel rod stock "Balkan" versions posted earlier.

[bdgfate]

Again, here's detail of the M38 sling on my M44. Notice it is a standard sling with "dog collar" type, not a "one piece" (PPSH or expedient type) with the straps sewn on to the sling.

[asjemenou]

Thanks for the shared pictures Bdgfate. Especially from the M1891/30 rifle sling. It seems that there are more types of Russian Mosin Nagant slings than I thought.
Yesterday I got another interesting reaction. Somebody gave me this weblink; Finnish M38 Mosin Nagant Sling . So, the sling on your Russian M44 carbine could be a captured Finnish M38 Mosin Nagant sling and not a Polish sling like I thought.
The same person also sends me a picture of a Soviet soldier armed with a M44 carbine. Presumable a Tokarev SVT-40 sling is fitted on his M44 carbine. As far as it can be seen on the picture, the sling has holes.
The above weblink is very interesting to read. I also read the Russian part; SVT-40 Sling
From this I conclude that the Russians used any type of sling on their rifles and carbines as long as it fits and what was available.
I still look for a rifle sling for my 1944 dated Russian M44 carbine. I did some research to find out what kind of sling I exactly should need.
My conclusion is that I officially should look for a standard Mosin Nagant rifle sling but a PPSh-41, a SVT-40 or a captured (Finnish) sling can also be possible.

[Jeffrey Meffert]

Now getting completely off subject and to confuse the issue, here are some photos of the sling and swivel mounts for a Berdan II, the predecessor to the venerable Mosin Nagant M91. (Details: Single shot, 10.75 X 58 black powder cartridge. There are photos of WWII partisans carrying these and revolutionary era photos showing Bolsheviks wearing bandoliers of really big bullets belonging to this weapon)

[bdgfate]

Asejemenou, that website rifleslings.com is fairly decent, but not always completely accurate. The carbine might be a Finn captured one (SA marked), but the sling is definitely not Finnish. It's Soviet. Check out the Finnish area and the Russian/Soviet areas at this link and you will see much of these items and more documented. Regards.

Russian - Soviet Area
The Finnish Area