Glory.

[PaulR]

I want to share with you, a couple of my Glory Orders... a 2nd and 3rd class. These are currently pending research, which should be back in a few months.

What information can one get from just looking at the images? I can hardly wait to see what information comes back.

Here is the second class

[PaulR]

Next is the Order of Glory, 3rd class. I can hardly wait to inform you of the results!

[MONDVOR]

Dave, but Prikaz date has nothing to do with award's number. This is incorrect matching. I have Glory 785.XXX that was given to a veteran in 1968, but the date of the Prikaz was April 1944. In many cases the distance between Prikaz and the actual event of receiving the Glory measured by months and even years.
I strongly believe that if you want to create a list of the numbers, they should be tied to the dates when a soldier received his Glory, not to the Prikaz dates.
Here are some examples.
Glory 362269 was received on May 4, 1945.
372134 - on May 17, 1945.
382630 - on June 9, 1945.

Numbers higher than 400.000 were received after the Victory Day:

521761 - December 23, 1945.
529234 - February 21, 1946.
566571 - January 12, 1948.

Forgot to add one thing. I agree that actual dates of issue are hard to find. But if you want to display precise and correct figures, you should only use dates of issue. One source of those datas - Temporary Certificates. They all have date of issue (which is the date when award was given to recipient).
The other source - protocols of presentation. Probably you are familiar with this type of document. Here is an example. Compare the date of Prikaz for this Glory and the date of issue :)

[Dave]

Originally Posted by MONDVOR

I strongly believe that if you want to create a list of the numbers, they should be tied to the dates when a soldier received his Glory, not to the Prikaz dates.

Andrew:

I do agree with you. The only problem is the ability to get the protocols like you posted in the next posting. I would LOVE to find those!!! As far as I know though I cannot get them. If you have a way, I am all ears!!! :thumbsup

Dave

[desantnik]

Yes, there is a lag between authorization and awarding dates, especially on post-war awards. However for strictly war-time awards, (let's say awarded with 4-5 months of action) Glory III's go up to the 400-500K s/n range. That being said, the highest s/n "run" or "block" of awards I've got is 604-605xxx (this was of 4 Glory III's from the same Front/Army).

I base my information on over 3000 Glory III data entries. At face value this could be criticized for being "only" about .3-4% of all Glories issued, but it reflects a much wider range, i.e. if I have 10 entries from 330-332K all from the 1 Belorussian Front, 69A - we can reasonably extrapolate that 2K s/n range from 10 data points.

As I update my listing, I tried to reflect the awarding dates too if known. (I call it "bestowed" date). There are arguments for either recording "authorization" (prikaz/ukaz) or actual "awarding" (the day the guy got the award placed in his hand) dates, but I settled on the authorization dates because up until 1945-6, these are relatively concurrent and the information is MUCH more readily available than the award dates.

[Nack]

Could you post a close-up pic of the center of the 2nd class?

[MONDVOR]

Dave, those protocols are available from central military archive in Podolsk. I have dozens of them, trying to determine what number ranges of different awards were issued in which units (Armies, Fronts).
It seems that it's endless work, because so far I have just a tiny piece of information. But we have to start from somewhere, right? ;)
As you are interested in Glories, here is another protocol (part of it about Glory). I'm sorry for poor quality, but with a limit of 50kB there is only way to post it - is to reduce the size and quality of the image.
As you can see, the awerage time period between Prikaz (very right column) and date of issue (very left column, after the name and rank) for 3rd class is about eight month. Of course this is not a rule. In many cases this distance was only few days or couple of weeks.

Originally Posted by desantnik

Yes, there is a lag between authorization and awarding dates, especially on post-war awards. However for strictly war-time awards, (let's say awarded with 4-5 months of action) Glory III's go up to the 400-500K s/n range. That being said, the highest s/n "run" or "block" of awards I've got is 604-605xxx (this was of 4 Glory III's from the same Front/Army).

I'm sorry, I didn't get a passage about 604-605.XXX Glories. That's because of my poor English :)
According with a datas from the mint arcives, this interval was produced in May-June 1945. Plus some time to deliver those awards from the mint to the units. So they were bestowed not earlier than Fall 1945. Can you post this protocol, that you mentioned?

[Nack]

As a side note to this discussion, it appears that this particular award has lots of twists and turns when you talk about time of awarding and manufacturing. We can all agree that the Slavas (of whatever class) are both very-cool looking and historically significant, especially for those who earned them and who collect them. As far as I am concered, they may be the most pure, if you will, reflection of Soviet military history, as they are strictly battle-merit-related award. Developing a good knowledge base for these awards both enables vets/families and collectors to ensure these awards recieve their just accolades. Accordingly, kudos to Desantnik and Mondvor (and others) for their work on this front). In all that we debate on these forums and others, I applaud those who bring better clarity (esp. for those non-Russian speaker among us). Keep it up :thumbsup

[Soviet]

Paul, you are allowed in this forum to post several pictures (up to 5) in one post. :)

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by MONDVOR

I'm sorry, I didn't get a passage about 604-605.XXX Glories. That's because of my poor English :)
According with a datas from the mint arcives, this interval was produced in May-June 1945. Plus some time to deliver those awards from the mint to the units. So they were bestowed not earlier than Fall 1945. Can you post this protocol, that you mentioned?

Again, I don't have the "protokol", but prikaz/ukaz information indicating authorization dates. Here are the three points:

604.791 9.9.44 2UkrF, 40A, 240 RD
605.043 13.1.45 2UkrF, 7GdA, 30RC,25GdRD
605.270 12.2.45 2UkrF, 9GdA, 39RC

Thus from combining our data, it is evident that as early as SEP 44 a soldier was AUTHORIZED the award, the award was PRODUCED in MAY-JUN 45, and Ivan wasn't AWARDED (or bestowed) it until presumably fall 45.