Fake Order And Medal Booklets

[CtahhR]

I must admit I have been confused by the use of diminutive names on award documents. Russian can be tricky but then you get into the minority groups of the Soviet Union sometimes it can be a saga finding out that 4 or 5 different names are the very same person.

[USSR]

Could the similar handwriting be a coincident or did the ebay seller wrote these entries himself? Both orders + booklets are from the same seller…

[Lapa]

USSR,

Are these offered from a Baltic state?

IMHO, the probability that the very same clerk, using the same type of ink, officiated from December 1941 and August 1945, is more than highly improbable.

If you get a chance, pleae post better pictures of the booklets, but also of the order and medal. I wouldn't be surprized of they were fake :rolleyes:

Marc

[USSR]

yes, the seller is from Vilnus and sold many high end items for many k$.

[desantnik]

At a minimum the Nakhimov is bad. As Marc said, the docs don't inspire confidence either.

[USSR]

That's bad thing then... This particular seller has sold over 20k of medals like these. What is the normal procedure in situations like this? Contact bidders?

[Lapa]

USSR,

I found that seller on eBay. The pictures posted there are much better, and leave very little to the imagination: washed out booklets that were then filled to suit, fake Nakhimov medal (not even of the best quality).

As usual, greed is the killing factor, on the buyer's side that is. A genuine Nakhimov medal does not go at anywhere near $500 these days, let alone a "documented" one (IMHO, you should be looking at $2000).

By the way, the Order of Friendship of Nations SN35148 that he sold in last May is also a Baltic Mint fake, which had been making the rounds for while before being coupled to "his" order booklet.

Marc

[USSR]

Originally Posted by Lapa

USSR,

I found that seller on eBay. The pictures posted there are much better, and leave very little to the imagination: washed out booklets that were then filled to suit, fake Nakhimov medal (not even of the best quality).

As usual, greed is the killing factor, on the buyer's side that is. A genuine Nakhimov medal does not go at anywhere near $500 these days, let alone a "documented" one (IMHO, you should be looking at $2000).

By the way, the Order of Friendship of Nations SN35148 that he sold in last May is also a Baltic Mint fake, which had been making the rounds for while before being coupled to "his" order booklet.

Marc

Sad to see so many buyers are being fooled for tons of money... He actually receives 100% pos feedback AFTER they had their fake orders in their hands!:mad:

[Lapa]

USSR,

Fakes are very convincingly made these days. If you do not know what to look for, you may very much be convinced that what you received through the mail is kosher. Several months or years down the road, the buyer will discover the truth when he wants to realize his "investment".

The key is education. Fakers are not resting on their laurels, and are always improving their wares, making them more and more convincing. For example, they are now paying attention to the handwriting style used in specific SN intervals, and faking that too. Some medals are now faked almost to perfection (Odessa, Partisan 1 and 2), to the point that it has become impossible to give a 100% opinion if the medal is not in pristine condition :mad:

As collectore, we should stop and use what we have (supposedly!) between our ears. Of course, we are all on the lookout for bargains, stroke of luck and the like, and it may happen, once in a great while. But generally speaking, there is no such thing as free cheese, especially if it is coming from the Baltic countries. Remember that these guys were an integral part of the Soviet Union, that many of them have family on both sides of the border, and that, even if most deny it, they do speak Russian. They KNOW what things are worth, especially that Russians are coming regularly to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. So, anyone if free to believe in fairytales if they want, but remember, when you shell out your hard-earned money, you should be buying the piece of metal, not the story.

Marc

PS: I have a very strong suspicion that the $12,000+ HSU group that he sold not very long ago also had some "creative" elements included.

[USSR]

Originally Posted by Lapa

USSR,

Some medals are now faked almost to perfection (Odessa, Partisan 1 and 2), to the point that it has become impossible to give a 100% opinion if the medal is not in pristine condition :mad:

Yes, that's the reason I stopped collecting campaign medals... But I would never have guessed they were able to make such a good fake of a complicated order like the Friendship Among People...That is really worrying me. Especially since I am still a pupil compared with many guys on this forum.