Order Booklets

[charlet]

Hi gentlemen, I have a little doubt about a set proposed to me.
This is stuff sold by a French collector selling all, this stuff is of 1992-1994. Very reliable. Really this is santa claus.
One of these sets is a order of glory 3rd, very nice, heavy patina, 100% good, nr 7995xx approx.
The order book is classic, a type 5, goznak 1967, writing nice, order given in 1980, name of the order stamped, and booklet nr "I (latin) 550xxx.
For me all is good, but...the hand writing is done with blue ballpoint ink. I'm very cautious about ballpoint writing, is this a faking, or it is possible for common orders of the 80'
(for me black china ink is the major rule).

thanks by advance, sebastien

[Nota Bene]

Sebastien,

The Order is OK, and I am inclined to believe that the booklet is genuine. Still the only way to be absolutely sure is to have it researched.

Alexei

[charlet]

thanks Alexei! I'll buy this group to my friend at the end of the month...
Shawn, ball-point pen is rather common on large-scale diffused docs like booklet for labor vet, jubilee medals docs. But you say it can be normal and under tolerance for the begenning 80?

[Ed_Haynes]

As the Order of Glory was awarded for Afghanistan, could this be what we are seeing here? The world didn't end in 1945.

If an Afghan War award, some would view it as FAR more interesting than just another GPW award.

Ed Haynes

[charlet]

I didn't think to this possibility Ed; I thought without doing mistakes the order of glory knew a "decadence" in the 50-60', being decerned for merit service in VS, didn't it?
(of course it was too decerned for feats of war with much late, as a regulation - for ex I got a GPW2 given in 1976 for 1944 events)

An Afghan award would be of the greatest interest!

sebastien

[Nota Bene]

Ed,

It could very well be a late WWII award. In many cases they mention the number of the original commendation and date, but not always.

Alexei

[charlet]

here's an example from my collection:

[Nota Bene]

Here's another one from 1985, also written in ball-point pen.

Alexei

[kameli]

I´am afraid that investigation is going take a lot of time!

But also seriously, we all know that sometimes all didn't worked as they should have to! So why not also when one filled the documents?

I just saw a picture of Ordenskaya Knizhka belong to admiral N.N. Amelko. The picture was in Ordenskaya Knizhka -magazine (nro. 200301,page 96).

The picture is not very clear, but you can see very well that there are no photo or no "valid without photo" -stamp and no Amelko´s signature. And that is admiral´s Ordenskaya Knizhka! Admiral Amelko has got Nakhimov 1st class, Nakhimov 2nd class and so on!!!

I have no reason to doubt that the picture is not real, so that makes "the mystery of the not stamped-documents" in a higher level.

(picture from Ordenskaya Knizhka -magazine ):

there is stamp and signature in Amelko´s Ordenskaya Knizhka because they were printed a stamp and a facsimile signature.

I am not sure if all the booklets are made like that, but I have never seen any with original (= not printed) signature and stamp. Maybe some person in very high position has got that kind of booklet?

So I think that if there are no holder's signature and no stamps man must be a little bit aware, but if there nothing on the awards detailed-pages... that's a new thing !?!

And if the signature and stamp are original (=not printed), that must be a very rare Ordenskaya Knizhka.

Regards,

Jussi-Pekka

[Taz]

I found this article on award Docs officially issued without a photo and thought it might be of interest.


Have you ever seen the certificate of a Hero of Socialist Labor with, instead of a photograph of the holder, the officially authorized statement "valid without photograph"? A certificate like that was presented to Major General Pavel Mikhaylovich Zernov, first chief of KB-11 [Design Bureau 11], which was to become the basis of the "closed" city of Arzamas-16, also known as Arzamas-75, Shatki-1, and Moscow-Center 300.

The manufacturers of our nuclear weapons had many pseudonyms, but only one aim. It was not only individuals who were hidden from immodest eyes. Entire cities were shoved into "mail boxes." Present-day Russia has inherited 10 such cities from the former medium machine building sector: Arzamas-16, Krasnoyarsk-26, Penza-19, Chelyabinsk- 70, Sverdlovsk-44, Tomsk-7, Chelyabinsk-65, Zlatoust-36, Krasnoyarsk-45, and Sverdlovsk-45. Their 736,000 inhabitants are under the tutelage of the Russian Federation Ministry of Atomic Energy to this day.

Eddie.