Order for Service to the Homeland + Red Star Group

[medals73]

I wish there were some way to split these threads, as the two very separate issues are getting lost in all the . . . smoke. Actually, stickier than smoke . . . .

May Eric's diplomatic wisdom prevail.

[andrew6767]

Well , the can of worms has been opened and I would like to see a consistant attitude and policy in regards to people involved in fraudulant activity. Without it , what hope does anyone have ?

I also would hope that an intelligent conclusion and better handling of genuine complaints can be established so as to avoid similar problems in the future.

It has to be seriously acknowledged that fraud and scamming are a serious problem for collectors and in my opinion , there should be a zero tolerance policy. I personally would have hoped that everyone here would endorse that policy and not accept that it is ok to rip people off on Ebay and be a fine upstanding member here at the same time. Its an obvious recipe for disaster.

As I also mentioned , I am more than annoyed at the trivilisation of my original complaint and the fact that not a single staff member of this forum asked for documented proof of my allegation at the time.

If it Dave wants to call me as off topic on this , I am quite happy to start a new thread on it.

Anyway , have a good one Eric :)

[new world]

Andrew,

I see your frustration, but your posts provide very little substance.

To make your case clear, why don't you start with posting scans of the medals you bought, so we can see what's the source of conflict here.

William

[andrew6767]

Originally Posted by new world

Andrew,

I see your frustration, but your posts provide very little substance.

To make your case clear, why don't you start with posting scans of the medals you bought, so we can see what's the source of conflict here.

William

William

The medals were sent to Paypal long ago in exchange for a refund of my money. We are talking about something that happened 2 and a half years ago and was originally reported to Art a long time ago.

Obviously I could have and would have provided more than enough evidence if it was requested at the time of complaint to this forum. Two and a half years later and after moving to a new home after 14 years at the old place , I would be lucky to find much at all unless I can possibly find some backed up emails from that time. Even if I do have some and can find them , it would take me a week at least. I do have the original Paypal complaint as you can see from the listing of the actual medals.

The point is I could have and would have provided all proof if requested or required at the time. I have let it go to a degree since the person wasnt posting or selling here , but since this person has recently decided to use this forum to sell items , I have spoken out.

If anyone thinks I am simply here just for the sake of it to make up stories so be it , they will just have to make up their own minds. But as owner of a large Vbulletin forum with 70,000 members/1.2 million posts I do have a lot of experience in dealing with scammers and rip off artists and certainly would not tolerate a person like this on my site for the safety of my members.

But , if no one cares , no one cares. As much as I have enjoyed my time here and what I have learnt from this site , it isnt the only forum of its type on the internet ( I also get members telling me that :) ) and if policies like this are the rules , I will probably stop coming here.

Simply , I have a problem with no action on one matter compared to the hysteria of another. Both incidences are equally bad as each other , and I dont appreciate seeing one trivialised under ridiculous rulings which give safe haven to crooks as long as they behave themselves while on the site.

Yes , my frustration is obvious. I have re-read my posts about 20 times each to make them as diplomatic as possible but there is no other way to state the obvious I am afraid.

[EricFG]

Originally Posted by medals73

I wish there were some way to split these threads, as the two very separate issues are getting lost in all the smoke.

A VERY good idea.
I didn't want to post any more about this tonight, especially considering the date today but....
Andrew, you've made your point very succinctly and intelligently. I understand your issues. But when I said relax just a little meant to include you as well. There is such a thing as overdoing it. Something is gonna be done. I dunno what but I'm pretty sure it will be good for all of us (I'm such an optimist).

Fraud and scams *are* a serious issue. And that will be dealt with when folks like you and Bob speak up. It just don't happen immediately. It takes time.

I do NOT think your issues were "trivialized" here. You've gotten some serious attention to your issues. And the matter's not closed so just hang tight and see what happens.

In my very humble opinion, as far as consistant attitude and policy is concerned I'll take SMAP any day.We here are so much more devoted to a specific genre that those who fake or decieve have a much better chance of being exposed. And much of that is due to folks, like Andrew and Bob who speak up, like Alexei and Andrew and Alex and Paul who give professional advice for free, and like Brian and Bryan and Marc and Ed and Doc who are dedicated collectors who don't think twice about trying to help others.

Having said that I'm gonna get my Christmas buzz going and I wish you all of you a very happy day tomorrow. "Let there be an OG1 under every Christmas tree!!". :)

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by andrew6767

As I also mentioned , I am more than annoyed at the trivilisation of my original complaint and the fact that not a single staff member of this forum asked for documented proof of my allegation at the time.

Andrew, Art takes the integrity of his site, its moderators, and members seriously. There are frequent moderator-only discussions in this regard. I have recused myself from this discussion.

It appears you have been wronged, but I respect Art for trying to remain impartial in a dispute that involved other sales sites, began on entirely different forum, the accused party(ies) have attempted to make restitution, etc.

[Bob]

Andrew (and all) - while I sympathize with your situation I really would appreciate if you handled it seperate from this specific thread which is focused on 1 specific "group".

I am not familiary with the details of your specific case (2.5 years ago I wasn't even a collector;)) but if/when you decide to raise your case in public (perhaps not relevant anymore so long after the fact) I'd appreciate it to be presented in a way which also benefits the wider community.

I've "tried" to be somewhat restrained and open minded in my responses in this specific thread with the main focus on "getting the facts on the table". I think we're not fully there yet but do have the impression this specific OSH+RS thread also provides more to the broader community than just being witness of say a bar fight. I certainly have learned quite a bit from this - especially Rick / Dave's posts. I hope others have as well (beyond just changes/confirmations of perception of certain parties).

Note, I do believe there should be no constraint in discussing such issues in public like on this forum (while there's obviously some level of discretion inherently needed in this collecting area at times).


Now, back to the case at hand. I see Mark Signa has signed in since his last post but he's not felt compelled to join this thread again. I will send him a reminder.

Merry Xmas to all,

Bob

[andrew6767]

Well said as always Eric and your comments have been noted and taken on board.

Paul , agreed to a point , but integrity isnt something exclusively reserved for staff only as far as I am concerned. It goes both ways.

Bob , the threads all yours , apologies for the hijacking , I wont respond unless people are directing questions or comments at me in it. So I would ask that they dont so your problem can be discussed.

Anyway , a good christmas to all ( , I am off to enjoy it. )

[Sergei]

If I can make a suggestion, would it benefit the community if we had this thread shut down until after the New Year? We can all start afresh on January 1, 2008. I cannot offer a rational explanation to this deadline except for the fact that serious issues need time to think them through and, as far as I can tell, the 'damage' to several participants of this forum has already been done but no new hazards are likley. Besides, this is supposed to be family time etc, and there is always email and pm as tools for discussion.
Just a thought.
Sergei

[Dave]

Originally Posted by andrew6767

But , if no one cares , no one cares. As much as I have enjoyed my time here and what I have learnt from this site , it isnt the only forum of its type on the internet ( I also get members telling me that :) ) and if policies like this are the rules , I will probably stop coming here.

Not to be trite, but it seems that your intention is to only aire your grievances and if they are not heard, then your intention is to leave?

I'm not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, but this thread started out about a faked Homeland 3rd group, which YOU hijacked in order to lamblast another forum member for another deal altogether.

No, I do not have any interest in your fight (or perhaps "quest"?) as I neither have any particular personal interest or care for either yourself or the person who wronged you other than that you are all treated fairly as fellow forum members and Soviet collectors.

Let us get this thread back to where it was originally intented - to find out what happened with a particular Homeland 3rd that was sold on this forum that became a fantasy group in order to determine WHO created this abomination.

If you wish to further discuss your heartburn over your two-and-a-half year old eBay grievance, please do so elsewhere - but not on this thread.

Please consider this a warning against any future outbursts of this type of unacceptable behavior.

Thank you.

Dave