Red Star.

[medals73]

Yes, this would probably be pre-1991. In that era, that was about the only way I ever saw Soviet awards. Dour guys in unstylish black suits and white shirts would show up in the OMSA bourse and search through the very few Soviet awards there and jot down any numbers that were legible. Wonder who they were and what they did with those numbers? It was much the same scene as their American cousins with the same terrible fashion sense who show up in the OMSA bourse these days and look for nasty illegal US Medals of Honor.

[Lapa]

Originally Posted by Kapusta Norm

Rare piece George. Folks correctly if I am wrong but the possibility exists that this was done pre91?

Norm,

Not necessarily, since the laws regarding OMDs have not changed since pre-1991. The bulk came after 1991, and at least at the beginning, it was customary for the "seller" to try and obliterate the SN so that those guys with a dubious taste for dressing would not come and knock on his door early some morning ;)

Marc

[Norm Braddock]

Originally Posted by Lapa

Norm,

Not necessarily, since the laws regarding OMDs have not changed since pre-1991. The bulk came after 1991, and at least at the beginning, it was customary for the "seller" to try and obliterate the SN so that those guys with a dubious taste for dressing would not come and knock on his door early some morning ;)

Marc

Thank you. But how does this explain the vast supply of awards that have been/are selling right now? I had heard that pre 91,serial numbers were scuffed, etc. to evade persecution. Didn't the KGB walk around military shows pre 91 and write down the serial numbers then? It stands to reason that due to the extent of the serial number removal for the above award,it would be a pre 91 candidate?;)

[medals73]

Originally Posted by Kapusta Norm

Didn't the KGB walk around military shows pre 91 and write down the serial numbers then?

Well, all I know is what I saw at the 1975 (?) OMSA meeting in Phliadelphia. I cannot say they were KGB (I didn't ask to see their ID cards), but they were speaking Russian. I can't say what went on at "militaria" shows, but I know what happened at OMSA. And I was told that these guys were annual visitors to the OMSA bourse.

[CtahhR]

I wonder if there are any DPRK and Cuba representatives wandering around Militaria type events taking note of serials. A good few DPRK items have defaced (or attempted defaced) serial numbers on them but the vast majority are untampered with. I have yet to observe a defaced People's Republic of Bulgaria serial, although they weren't always very "orthodox" when it came to recording the serial with awardee.

Don't forget every real award with a fake number (the really low ones or ones made to match paperwork) all deface a true serial number, there will be many real awards out there that will never be able to be reunited with their group or paperwork because someone has thought they'd make a couple of quid more by knocking a number or two off.... All these real orders "Glory" 3rd Class that get defaced being "upgraded" or made to have a 3 or 4 digit serial, don't the people doing this that these aren't just playthings to be manipulated but real combat awards to real veterans for real service?

[medals73]

Originally Posted by CtahhR

I wonder if there are any DPRK and Cuba representatives wandering around Militaria type events taking note of serials.

Well, since neither had embassies in the US, I doubt there'd have been many snooping about at OMSA or seeking such trivial things. So few Cuban awards are numbered and, in those distant days, DPRK awards were virtually unknown.

[CtahhR]

I was thinking more about now rather than in the 70's and also Internationally. Are DPRK officials lurking with a pen and paper in China taking down serials and then "problems being solved" back at home? If not, why destroy serial numbers and deface documents?

[Bill Garvy]

Here is the reverse of a Medal for Bravery with its serial number removed. It is on a bar with a Medal for Combat Service, un-numbered, & a Medal for the Victory over Germany. I couldn't even hazard a guess. . .

[CtahhR]

I'm going with a 1###197 in this case. More that a little tamping is needed to get it up. I'm sure the same chemical treatment as used on Buffalo nickels would help....

[Lapa]

Bill,

Try scanning the place from which the SN was erased, it sometimes works wonders.

Marc