The Soviet Military Awards Page Forum  
  • Serial Numbers Database 2.0
Enter Here

vBClassified Featured Listings
Echoes of War
Order of Maternal Glory, 2nd Class

Go Back   The Soviet Military Awards Page Forum > Soviet Awards Forums > Union Of Soviet Socialist Republics > Soviet Medals

Soviet Medals Physical Characteristics, History, Types/Variations, Identification, Collecting Stories, anything relevant to the collecting of Soviet Medals (Медали СССР) is here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-03-2002, 07:24 PM   #11
Nota Bene
Senior Member
 
Nota Bene's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New York USA
Posts: 2,297
Shawn,

I totaly agree that this medal should be sold an official post-war issue with unissued doc. As for the price... hmmmm... all those type 3 medals were minted in smaller numbers than their WWII counterparts, and should, at least theoreticaly, cost more.

Alexei
Nota Bene is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 09-03-2002, 07:39 PM   #12
Art
Forum Founder
 
Art's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Buffalo NY
Age: 55
Posts: 1,646
I would agree Alexei, however it seems as if the variation 1 is psychologically more desirable, I mean it is more easy to pick out a fake V1. The authentic V1 has a neatly soldered ring, and a nice patina, something the V2's and V3's lack. Just MHO...

Art
__________________
Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page
Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ
Important Links: Forum announcements and rules | Image posting FAQ
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2002, 02:34 AM   #13
otlichnik
Senior Member
 
otlichnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Age: 53
Posts: 547
Alexei,

But, are they really that rare?? Or were many more made in the late or even post-Soviet era?? I ask because in the case of badges (parachute, submarine, etc.) official ones were issued in huge quantities in recent years. Tghey are indistinguishable from the ones actually issued but are very common and thus very cheap.

Shawn
otlichnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2002, 06:44 PM   #14
Nota Bene
Senior Member
 
Nota Bene's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: New York USA
Posts: 2,297
Shawn,

Some of them are quite rare, I am told that even for the Victory medal they coined about 20,000 V3s. V3 is no longer produced/faked for reasons explained by Art.

Alexei
Nota Bene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2002, 01:49 PM   #15
Tal Inbar
Senior Member
 
Tal Inbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Israel
Age: 52
Posts: 2,302
Prototype.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bel1.jpg (21.5 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg bel2.jpg (20.4 KB, 74 views)
__________________
Under the banner of Marxism-Leninism, under the leadership of the Communist Party--forward to new victories in the construction of communism!

Last edited by CtahhR; 11-23-2012 at 09:09 AM.
Tal Inbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2003, 02:18 PM   #16
skipper1939
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kent, Ohio - USA
Age: 81
Posts: 61
Medal "For The Liberation Of Belgrade"

I have raised this point elsewhere but I got a jolt today when I was looking up the "Libertion of Belgrade" medal in Kuznetsov's ENTSIKLOPEDIYA. First of all, of course, Belgrade had already been liberated - by Tito. Second it says that members of the navy who participated were eligible! Must have been a lot of them. And all of those involved in the PLANNING of the march through Belgrade were eligible. And finally, it says that some 70,000 were awarded - for a battle that never took place. Of course, Soviet troops did come under attack by American P-38s (accident?) while on the march to Belgrade. Maybe that counts as a battle.

My own opinion is that the Red Army by 1944-45 had gotten somewhat medal-happy and that many battle medals were indeed given out on an heroic scale.

I know 70,000 was only a small percentage of the Red Army. But was the march past in Belgrade really 70,000 strong?
skipper1939 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2003, 02:10 AM   #17
otlichnik
Senior Member
 
otlichnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Age: 53
Posts: 547
The decisions surrounding the establishment of Soviet WWII "battle" medals is, frankly, rather odd.

First, it must be kept in mind that they are campaign medals and not battle medals. That is why, as I have said before, you don't need to have been near the actual named city to be eligible for an award.

Two medals are clearly named for campaigns - Arctic and Caucasus, or three if you count V over Japan. The rest are named for cities but primarily deal with campaigns. Thus Berlin can be thought of as Germany, Warsaw as Poland, Budapest as Hungary etc.

The problem here is that some minor and even some major campaigns seem to be left out.

Belgrade can be taken as an award to the 4th Ukrainian Front, not just for the actions in Yugoslavia including around Belgrade, but also for their drive through Moldova, Romania, limited actions in Bulgaria, and then a swing back north into Hungary. Without Belgrade most of the 4th Ukrainian Front would not have been eligble for any of the liberation/seizure medals.

Kiev was left out till the 1960s. This is understandable given the fact that there was little to be proud of regarding the defence of Kiev or the first several atepts to liberate the area. The medal was introduced under Krushchev who "fought" there and tried to enhance his reputation.

The great mystery to me is why there was never anything for Kursk or Minsk/Belorussia. Both were major Soviet successes.

Anyway, I don't think you are right Bob that the RKKA was medal happy. Few who got Belgrade (aside from pilots) added it to anything else. It was not like they were adding medal #5 or anything to the average soldier. If you look at an avarge of medals per days or miles or battles fought then the average Red Army soldier or officer has far, far, far fewer medals than the rest of the allies.

Shawn

PS For the liberation of Belgrade itself and the actions south and west of the city the Danube river foltilla played a huge and key role and were thus all eligible for the medal.

PPS People forget that some successes owe more to the planers than the fighters. The biggest success of the Campaign against Japan in Manchuria was the absolute record setting (still standing to today) movements for comat capable mech/motor units. Planners of that received, rightly, major Orders.

Shawn
otlichnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2003, 08:33 AM   #18
HuliganRS
Senior Member
 
HuliganRS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Illinois - U.S.A.
Age: 43
Posts: 1,023
Shawn,

Thanks! I was wondering about this for a while but couldn't find an answer that made sence.

I agree that average soldier came home with only campaign medals and maybe a bravery or combat medal.

Rusty.
__________________
"Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Member #193
HuliganRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2003, 12:53 PM   #19
skipper1939
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Kent, Ohio - USA
Age: 81
Posts: 61
Shawn:

Good points. I particularly thank you for getting me to study the history of the river flotillas. Dotseko's FLOT, VOYNA, POBEDA 1941-1945, has a separate chapter on the flotillas. I assume that your reference was to their role ferrying troops across the Danube. Their naval infantry tactical role was not large. The book has some great photos of the flotilla, including one of Soviet army troops coming ahore on lend-lease DUKWs and an all-female cutter crew.

I seem to remember reading that the average commonwealth soldier ended the war with four decoration, five if he was unlucky. They included the Africa Star, the Italy Star and the European Star (unlucky guy) as well as two King George war service medals. Different concept from a different kind of war.

I think that you would have an up-hill fight trying to convince any Yugoslav who was there that they were truly liberated by the Soviets. Regards, Bob
skipper1939 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2003, 03:12 AM   #20
otlichnik
Senior Member
 
otlichnik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Age: 53
Posts: 547
Bob,

You are right that since around 1950 no Yugoslav or ex-Yugoslav would admit to being liberated by the Red Army. And it is true as far as the fact that the Partisans, both the victorious Communists and the less victorious Mikhailovich ones, were here fighting for ages.

But they didn't really win anything themselves. They basically were able to tie down lots of Germans and to tread water and create a successor regime while the war went on.

The Germans left because in late-44/45 defending their Yugo gains was not high on their list of priorities. It would be a big stretch to say that the ugo partisans chased them out of the country.

The Red Army did deal with the few actual German formations and heavy gear left and then helped to transform the partisans into a real army. They also brought with them a small, but partially mechanised, Yugo military which did form the core of the later Yugo tank and mech units.

Shawn
otlichnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Medal "For The Liberation Of Belgrade". Laurent "Umalatova" Medals 1 07-06-2012 01:16 AM
Belgrade Doc - Cheap! Nota Bene Sold Soviet Awards Archive 1 06-14-2007 05:38 PM

Russian Medal "For Service in their own convoy Emperor Nicholas Alexandrovich"
$115000.0
 Russian Medal SIAM THAILAND RARE KING RAMA V 1884 SILVER PRAB HAW BRAVERY MEDAL.
$74005.0
SIAM THAILAND RARE KING RAMA V 1884 SILVER PRAB HAW BRAVERY MEDAL. pictureHOTCHKISS RIFLE & SHELLS UNIQUE CHINESE MANUAL MEDAL HONOR WINNER BOXER WAR NAVY
$49999.97
HOTCHKISS RIFLE & SHELLS UNIQUE CHINESE MANUAL MEDAL HONOR WINNER BOXER WAR NAVY picture1897 USMA Yearbook 39 Generals 3 Medal of Honor Gettysburg Custer 1st to FLY?WOW
$49500.0
1897 USMA Yearbook 39 Generals 3 Medal of Honor Gettysburg Custer 1st to FLY?WOW pictureWWII German Knights Cross Iron Cross Oakleaves & Swords Ribbon medal badge award
$39995.0
WWII German Knights Cross Iron Cross Oakleaves & Swords Ribbon medal badge award picture



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2011 Arthur G. Bates III