Order "For Civil Valour"/"For Industrialisation Valour". - Page 2

new world · 05-05-2004, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuliganRS

P.S. Unless the piece Taz posted is infact a cheaper private issue, I believe it's a Fake. The detail don't seem right, the enamel looks wrong, + other things.

Just my thoughts.

Rusty.

Private issues are exactly what they are - copies.

If I "privately issue" a Hero Star at home or at jeweler, no matter how we call it - copy, fake, private issue - no one will ever recognize it as a legitimate piece.

Hence, for all purposes - anything that's not made at the mint should not even come into discussion.

Just my thoughts.

William

HuliganRS · 05-05-2004, 11:25 AM

William,

So then the question is this:

Were pieces like the one Taz posted ever mady by any mint or were they all privately manufactured pieces?

If they were privately manufactured, that would explain the minor differences between pieces observed!

:confused: Any thoughts?

Rusty.

new world · 05-05-2004, 12:10 PM

This discussion reminds me situation with Russian Imperial awards:

- there were several makers - Keibel, Osipov, Eduard, etc - where government officialy placed contracts for manufacturing insignia for State Awards. These are considered official awards. Of course there wasn't strictly enforced standard, hence variations existed.

- multiple smaller makers/jewelers existed, both in Russia and abroad. These were by all means copies, unofficial strikes.

Until recently unofficial Imperial awards were selling for just few hundred dollars, as demand was low for such pieces. To compare - offical ones were priced for thousands of dollars.

The situation changed in the last couple of years, as demand picked up. I've observed European restrikes sold for as hign as $2000-4000.

I am not sure this was similar situation with Mongolian awards, but thought some background would be educational.

William

Taz · 05-05-2004, 12:20 PM

William,
That is indeed very much the same sort of debate. I also find it interesting to disscus and hear the different views on this topic.
Mongolian Orders seem still to be very open to a lot of research as far as the variations go.

Eddie.

HuliganRS · 05-05-2004, 12:45 PM

Getlemen,

I'm happy to see a "real" debate here! Everyone states their oppinion and we try to learn and make an educated conclusion...

Keep it up!

Rusty.

vatjan · 06-11-2004, 09:36 AM

There are actually (at least) two variations of the Order of Labour Glory.
V1 has the mint mark under the screwpost, V2 on the 12 o'clock position.

Lowest SN for V1 (I have seen) 398 High: 2325
Lowest SN for V2 (I have seen) 1837 High: 2315

Jan

Dolf · 07-11-2005, 01:22 PM

Gentlemen,

Would it be possible that one of you has a nice pic of the Order for Civil Valor Type 1 (as a reference it's listed as M 8.1 on Herfurth 4th edition Catalogue) to post here?
Any additional info would be very much appreciated also.

Thanks a lot,

Dolf

new world · 01-28-2007, 10:22 AM

Order of Labor Glory, also known as Industrial Red Banner.

1940 type.

Not something you see every day.

William

monfort1 · 11-03-2007, 03:27 PM

Hi William,

Indeed, wonderful !

Esteban_cool · 11-03-2007, 04:57 PM

What a gorgeous award! Looks like a drawing! :)

05-05-2004, 11:25 AM	#12
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	William, So then the question is this: Were pieces like the one Taz posted ever mady by any mint or were they all privately manufactured pieces? If they were privately manufactured, that would explain the minor differences between pieces observed! :confused: Any thoughts? Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

05-05-2004, 12:20 PM	#14
Taz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Herford, Germany Age: 65 Posts: 2,152	William, That is indeed very much the same sort of debate. I also find it interesting to disscus and hear the different views on this topic. Mongolian Orders seem still to be very open to a lot of research as far as the variations go. Eddie. __________________ Everybody's equal, But some more than others! "Those who come to us with the sword - will be killed by the sword" - Alexander Nevski

05-05-2004, 12:45 PM	#15
HuliganRS Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Illinois - U.S.A. Age: 46 Posts: 1,023	Getlemen, I'm happy to see a "real" debate here! Everyone states their oppinion and we try to learn and make an educated conclusion... Keep it up! Rusty. __________________ "Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Member #193

11-03-2007, 03:27 PM	#19
monfort1 New Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3	Hi William, Indeed, wonderful ! __________________ Best regards Eric

11-03-2007, 04:57 PM	#20
Esteban_cool Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Santiago, Chile Age: 36 Posts: 1,103	What a gorgeous award! Looks like a drawing! :) __________________ There's nothing in the streets Looks any different to me And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye And the parting on the left Are now parting on the right And the beards have all grown longer overnight The Who, Won't get fooled again

05-05-2004, 12:10 PM	#13
new world Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 1,086	This discussion reminds me situation with Russian Imperial awards: - there were several makers - Keibel, Osipov, Eduard, etc - where government officialy placed contracts for manufacturing insignia for State Awards. These are considered official awards. Of course there wasn't strictly enforced standard, hence variations existed. - multiple smaller makers/jewelers existed, both in Russia and abroad. These were by all means copies, unofficial strikes. Until recently unofficial Imperial awards were selling for just few hundred dollars, as demand was low for such pieces. To compare - offical ones were priced for thousands of dollars. The situation changed in the last couple of years, as demand picked up. I've observed European restrikes sold for as hign as $2000-4000. I am not sure this was similar situation with Mongolian awards, but thought some background would be educational. William

07-11-2005, 01:22 PM	#17
Dolf Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lisbon, Portugal Age: 68 Posts: 572	Gentlemen, Would it be possible that one of you has a nice pic of the Order for Civil Valor Type 1 (as a reference it's listed as M 8.1 on Herfurth 4th edition Catalogue) to post here? Any additional info would be very much appreciated also. Thanks a lot, Dolf

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