Please help with the markings on the chain on this dagger!

[Curator]

Does anyone possibly recognize the style of this chain, and the markings on it? Are these national markings from a fomer Soviet republic, such as Ukraine?

I will explain the details if anyone can tell what these markings are. And what is the symbol on the back of the disc that looks like an S with an line throught the middle?

I'm sure if this is from the East, some of you experts will know it. And I will then share the details from this extremely rare item. For now, I'lll just say that it is a dagger that was hand-decorated by its proud owner during the Great Patriotic War.

Thank you!!!!

John.

[EricFG]

Well, it ain't TR. The Bulgarians used chain attachments at one time, I think. I don't think the Russians did but again, I'm not sure. In fact the only dagger I have is a Swiss one (that I really like) and that has no chains, either.
But the 'C S -' mark isn't Cyrillic so....
Another hint, maybe?

[Curator]

Thank you Eric - that's more information than I have been able to figure out on my own in over a year - again, thanks for your response -- it is sincerely appreciated. Maybe we'll get there by process of elimination. (I hope.)
This is definitely a case of an individual embellishing his dagger for his own pride in it.
And thanks for ruling out Cyrillic.
John

[CtahhR]

Never mind Bulgarian, looks like a mess to me.

[Curator]

CtahhR - thanks for sharing.

John

[Jeffrey Meffert]

Might help if we had a picture of the dagger itself with a close up of the hilt and handle

[Curator]

Thanks Jeffrey.

You are right, of course. A hilt and/or pommel shot, at the very least, is required, for any decent feedback.

Unfortunately, I have learned that this dagger is a "Schutzmannschaft" dagger - the former 'Red Army' soldiers who collaborated with the Nazis during the Great Patriotic War - they used German Daggers, such as the one this chain is on, and decorated them with insignia and logos indiginous to their countries- thus we have have Ukranian, Lithuanian, and every country in between, decorating their own daggers, uniforms, etc., in their national colors, to show off their fight against the Soviets.

I figured with the great collection of experts on this forum, someone might recognize what country the 'partriot' who decorated the chain on this particular dagger came from. But there probably isn't enough on the chain to really tie it to any country, so I think I was barking up the wrong tree here.

On second thought, I guess this isn't the forum to ask such questions; probably better off on some Axis WWII forum. That's probably why CtahhR so correctly identified/condemned this chain as a mess - because it IS a mess. These items are extremely rare and valuable, if only because they didn't long survive - what Ukraniian, for instance, who went over to the 'German Devils,' would want the Red Army finding such a dagger on his person?

I think I wasted everyone's time with this one, and I apologize. Sorry everyone. It really does fall under the Axis side in WWII.


John

[desantnik]

John, there's an expression "Garbage in equals garbage out." I don't think you can expect a lot of commentary on partial blowup photos of a non-starndard item. Can you show the entire piece and share more of where you heard of this item?

[Curator]

Desantnik, you are 100% correct. I didn't provide enough to go on. Yes - it was a case of "garbage in" on my part. Sorry about that.

The only reason I didnt want to post the rest of the item is because it is a collaborationist item - and marked as such with swastikas, hand-engraved German script etc, by the man, or for the man, from an Eastern country who owned it.

Now I realize that maybe this isn't the forum for such an item. The blame is entirely mine.

I didn't mean to come off as a smart #$% in my last post. If I did I apologize to everyone. I really didn't provide anything for anyone to go on, other than crappy blow-up photos and no reference point.

Again, all apologies. And now that I am thinking better of it it, I just don't think that this is the forum to post items with swatsikas on them.

My next thread will be better, I promise - it will ask how to repair the patina on my bust of Dzerzhinsky!

John

[desantnik]

Don't sweat it.

I think we're all big boys (and the occasional girl too) here and can handle the sight of a swastika. Unless it's posted in the website owner's "don'ts", this isn't eBay and I don't think you're going to offend anyone by showing it "in toto."