|
08-10-2009, 12:03 AM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cajun Country
Age: 56
Posts: 1,565
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Quote:
As for the state security aspect, though I'm happy I guessed correctly about the Lenin, ;) I am surprised that there were no other badges on this tunic. Becoming a Commissar of the NKGB one would think he had to be with one of the previous branches of State Security (NKVD, OGPU). I'm again guessing he was probably a soldier or security officer because of the Red Banner - though I know it was possible to earn one without being in the military (later, they were often given to KGB agents for successful important missions and in the 1970s onward the Order of the October Revolution was another often used option). So the lack of security awards makes me wonder if this fellow was a political appointment by or from the CPSU. My knowledge of pre-KGB/MVD organs is basic and I'm always learning. So if anyone could shed some light on what the commissars' function(s) in the NKGB were and how they came to have that position, I would certainly appreciate it. Thanks in advance, Phillip
__________________
Phillip |
|
Sponsored Links |
08-10-2009, 10:03 AM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Phillip,
The NKGB handled foreign intelligence, counter-intelligence inside the USSR, and some high level protection of top Soviet leadership (such as Commissar Vlasik protecting Stalin). They also handled codes, the protection of the Kremlin, etc. It's possible this Commissar 3rd Rank was appointed, but I think he probably worked his way through the NKVD. DougD |
08-10-2009, 11:29 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cajun Country
Age: 56
Posts: 1,565
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Thanks Doug. :thumbsup But I still don't understand what position a "Commissar" would be equivalent to outside of the intelligence community. Above a colonel but below a general? Or, one of the highest ranking generals? I'm just trying to place this title in the perspective of later KGB officers (Chief Deputy, Director, assistant director, etc).:confused:
Thanks again, Phillip
__________________
Phillip |
08-11-2009, 09:33 AM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Hi Phillip,
Figure it this way: Army rank then NKGB rank: One star> Major General= Commissar of State Security 4th Rank Two stars>Lt.General=Commissar of State Security 3rd Rank Three stars>Col.General=Commissar of State Security 2nd Rank Four stars>General of the Army=Commissar of State Security 1st Rank So, for the example of the tunic I posted, he would be a Commissar of State Security 3rd Rank; had he been in the Red Army, he would have been a Lt.General. DougD |
08-11-2009, 02:52 PM | #35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Phillip,
As for roles, Commissar of State Security 3rd Rank (like an army Lt.General) Pavel Fitin is a good example. He was head of Foreign Intel. during the war, and is featured in a good book called "What Stalin Knew: The Enigma of Barbarossa" by David Murphy. It is an interesting read and gives a very good feel for what Fitin's role was, at least in the days leading up to the war. Note that in the photo he wears the 'special' NKGB tunic. DougD |
08-11-2009, 06:00 PM | #36 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cajun Country
Age: 56
Posts: 1,565
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Thank you Doug for all the information. As I'm sure you know, once the KGB was finally formed, they went to military ranks and that is why I was confused about the pecking order in state security before and during the GPW. As for the book you mentioned, I will try to find it and give it a read. Do you have the ISBN number by chance?
Phillip
__________________
Phillip |
08-11-2009, 06:03 PM | #37 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Hi Phillip,
It seems in 1945 these special Commissar ranks were replaced by the army like ranks, thus making the ranks and special uniform short lived. the book #s are: # ISBN-10: 030011981X # ISBN-13: 978-0300119817 DougD |
08-14-2009, 04:55 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cajun Country
Age: 56
Posts: 1,565
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Very much appreciated Doug.
Phillip
__________________
Phillip |
08-16-2009, 11:11 AM | #39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NJ
Age: 50
Posts: 2,060
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Phillip,
No problem, it is a good read. Also, if you are interested, pick up: Stalin's Secret War: Soviet Counterintelligence Against the Nazis By Robert Stephan # ISBN-10: 0700612793 # ISBN-13: 978-0700612796 DougD |
08-16-2009, 10:52 PM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cajun Country
Age: 56
Posts: 1,565
|
Re: M1943 Special Tunic for NKGB Commissars
Doug,
The Robert Stephan's book seems to be a hot item. Many places online are sold out and it is apparently being used as a textbook in some universities/colleges. I hope somebody is teaching Soviet Union history other than a few of my collegues. I went into an Albertson's grocery store this afternoon wearing a t-shirt with CCCP across the top of the Soviet "gerb" and got mostly puzzled looks from teens (and a few rolling eyes from their parents). The kids are trying to figure out what new band "CCCP" is, I guess.:laff As soon as I finish Oleg Kalugin's semi-insightful and very egoistic self-promotional The First Directorate I'll more actively seek both books out. By the by, Kalugin's book is not so much about sharing any new knowledge about the former KGB, but about trying to wash the blood off his hands. But, I very seldom stop reading a book once I've started. P.
__________________
Phillip |
Bookmarks |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Unusual M1943 Major's Tunic | DougD | Soviet Uniforms, Hats And Insignia | 10 | 06-19-2008 11:13 AM |
HSU Samokhin M1943 tunic | DougD | Army Uniforms And Insignia | 5 | 09-24-2007 09:27 AM |
Air Force Majors M1943 tunic | DougD | Sold Soviet Uniform Miscellanea Archive | 0 | 09-16-2007 10:43 AM |
M1943 Generals summer tunic | DougD | Sold Soviet Uniform Miscellanea Archive | 0 | 09-15-2007 02:52 PM |
U.S MILITARY BLACK HEAVY WEB BELT WITH BRASS PLATED TIP BELT ONLY USA MADE
$5.85
SPEC-OPS IBA Battle Belt ADJUSTABLE 24" to 45" Fast & Easy to Adjust COYOTE VGC
$16.50
NOS US MILITARY LBE LCE ALICE WEB PISTOL BELT EXTENDER 6" EXTENSION GRAY CLIP
$6.90
US MILITARY GRADE OD GREEN HEAVY WEB BELT WITH BLACK BUCKLE 54 INCHES USA MADE
$9.98
NEW US Military Individual Equipment Nylon Webbing LC Belt OD Green Size Large
$24.99
U.S MILITARY ARMY ISSUE BLACK BELT Brass TIP TROUSER BELT ONLY NO BUCKLE SZ 45
$10.92
NEW Made in US Military MOLLE 2 Eagle Industries War Belt Tan Khaki 32-47
$44.11
US Military DLA DSCP ADJUSTABLE Riggers Belt SAND SIZE 40 8415-01-526-5348 NEW
$11.90
USMC FILBE Hip Belt - Tactical Military Backpack Accessory for Comfortable Load
$33.50
U.S. Army WWII Springfield M1 Garand 10 Pocket Canvas Ammunition Belt Khaki
$38.40