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Soviet Orders Physical Characteristics, History, Types/Variations, Identification, Collecting Stories, anything relevant to the collecting of authentic Soviet Orders (Ордена СССР) is here.

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Old 03-16-2002, 04:08 PM   #1
Art
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Patriotic War.

These are weights of orders I've collected over the past 2 years. I'll post one thread for each award. All were weighed with the screwback off. I use a Pocket-Tech digital scale by Gram-Precision. Some were weighed over a year later to check the accuracy of my results and all were 100% accurate.

Order Name/Class-----Serial Number------Weight in grams

Patriotic War 2nd Class 192626 28.1
Patriotic War 2nd Class (copper H/S) 432817 24.6
Patriotic War 2nd Class 923622 27.8
Patriotic War 2nd Class 933435 27.5
Patriotic War Jubilee Issue 1st Class 567308 27.6
Patriotic War Jubilee Issue 2nd Class 2600066 26.6
Patriotic War Jubilee Issue 2nd Class 5829296 27.3
Patriotic War Jubilee Issue 2nd Class 5832279 27.0
Patriotic War Jubilee Issue 2nd Class 5836733 26.8
Patriotic War Jubilee Issue 2nd Class 5876281 26.5
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Old 03-28-2002, 04:16 AM   #2
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Hi, here is some weights on the Patriotic War from my collection.

2nd class No 33543 25,7 gram (hammer of Copper instead of gold)
No 280332 27,3 gram
No 781210 26,5 gram
No 960419 27,7 gram

Jubilium 2nd class No 1692649 26,7 gram
1 st class No 2577099 28,0 gram
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Old 03-28-2002, 06:22 PM   #3
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Patriotic War.

Bayoswede,

I was thinking about posting measurements also..I just bought a digital calipers...do you have any similar method for measuring? All we'd have to do is decide on what we were going to measure..

Aslo, your award with a copper instead of gold hammer..I've never heard of such a thing..can you post a picture?

Art
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Old 03-29-2002, 06:45 AM   #4
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Hi Art, here is a picture of the Patriotic War Order.
I bought from a man from Finland who said his father took it from a Soviet soldier during the 1944-1945 war between Finland and Soviet. The hammer/sickle is very well done so it must have been quite a low paid job to replace the gold one.

By from Europe
Christer
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Old 03-29-2002, 08:26 AM   #5
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Hi

what could be te reason of replacing the gold hammer & sickle with copper? The gold content in the order of the patriotic war 2nd class is 0.325 gram. To maka a profit out of it will requires a lot of orders.

Tal
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Old 03-29-2002, 03:29 PM   #6
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I myself have a 2nd and a 1st class with this copper-like hammer & sickle and an other 1st class with gold hammer & sickle. I always thought, that the mint just put a little bit more copper to the gold of the hammer & sickle during a certain period of production.

Regards from Vienna
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Old 03-29-2002, 05:37 PM   #7
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Christian,

What are the serial numbers on your copper pieces? this is strange...does anyone know if copper was even in the gold alloy that the mint regularly used? sounds like if it was by the mint it was done intentionally, maybe as a wartime thing to save gold or something?

Art
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Old 03-29-2002, 06:13 PM   #8
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Dear Art,

1st class (gold): 26.707 (gun & sabre: silver colour)
1st class (copper colour): 196.750 (gun & sabre: gold and the gold-star with the rays is made of ordinary yellow gold, like the other award - only the hammer & sickle is of copper colour)

2nd class (copper colour): 46.653 "D" (replacement award?)
2nd class (copper colour): 796.715

We have in Austria 3 types of gold juwellery:

a) red-gold (copper colour, like these awards)
b) yellow-gold (just normal gold colour)
c) white-gold (almost like silver)

The colour is done by the alloy.

Regards from Vienna
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Old 03-29-2002, 08:14 PM   #9
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That sure is a wide serial range..

Order of the Patriotic War 1c, copper hammer/sickle variation

196750

Order of the Patriotic War 2c, copper hammer/sickle variation

33543
46653 duplicate award
358968
796715

looks like it was done in small batches over a wide period of time. Maybe it was just a variation in the gold mixture which happened from time to time? kind of hard to believe, they seemed like such perfectionists in their work. The color of the copper hammer sickle variant reminds me of the copper screwposts on the Type 1 Variation 1 Medal for Valiant Labor, which was awarded for a short time around 1938-1943.

If there is any gold present in the copper hammer/sickle variants, I would say it's a case of some guy using whatever he had on hand to get the job done. If the hammer sickle is pure copper, I would say it's some new variant.

Art
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Old 03-30-2002, 12:12 AM   #10
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I have a group with a OPW with a copper hammer & sickle too. I was once told by a Russian here in the US that it was not uncommon for the veteran to have the gold emblem removed and replaced by a copper one so that the gold could be melted down and used by his dentist for fillings. Don't know if this is true but I've always noted that the copper emblems are very well made and always attached with bent prongs instead of rivits. The fact that they are so well made leads me to think this was sort of a "cottage industry". The fact that all of these that I've seen have the prongs instead of rivits also leads me to think that these were added later after the original gold emblem was removed.

Don't know about the dentist story but let me know if any of you has seen an OPW with a copper H&S that appears to have always been there (attached with rivits).

All the best,

Doug
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