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Soviet Orders Physical Characteristics, History, Types/Variations, Identification, Collecting Stories, anything relevant to the collecting of authentic Soviet Orders (Ордена СССР) is here.

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Old 04-01-2002, 10:01 PM   #21
Eugene
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There is one from my collection. H&S made of steel and covered by brass.
There are few theories. I’ve heard from a couple experienced Russian collectors that some Patriotic War orders were made in city Chelyabinsk in 1943. Steel H&S were used instead of gold. There are no documents discovered and publish proving this theory.
On contrary, varieties of types with steel H&S (even suspension types were noticed) point there is no system. During the war gold H&S could be broken and lost. Replacement H&S could be used from hat badges, as Tal has mentioned. They had almost the same size.
All observed species tell they were not made at mint.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg opatwarserpr.jpg (18.6 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg brass.jpg (11.7 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg brass r.jpg (8.6 KB, 2 views)
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Old 04-01-2002, 10:11 PM   #22
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Excellent information, Thanks Eugene..I guess we all agree that this wasn't an official alteration done at the mint, but something done in the field for whatever reason.

Art
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Old 04-03-2002, 01:37 PM   #23
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I emailed Alex Filler and here is a quote from his reply:

Hi Tal,

The copper hammer/sickles were replacing originals not because of the gold content, but simply because the original would fall off
(it's just 2 rivets, remember). The image there on a forum (and one of my orders) have the copper hammer/sickles from the hat, but sometimes, after war, mostly, veterans would have copper one made from scratch, so it would look similar... (see my other "copper" Order).
Hope this helps...

Cheers,

Alex.
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Old 04-04-2002, 01:41 PM   #24
AlexF.
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Copper Hammer/Sickle on P.War Orders

I see you guys already have my reply quoted. In addition, here are the pics of the copper H/S from hats...
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File Type: jpg pw-2copstars.jpg (12.7 KB, 117 views)

Last edited by AlexF.; 04-04-2002 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 05-12-2002, 08:23 AM   #25
Ed Maier
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I know that I am a little late in replying to this thread, but its the first time that I have read it. The above post which stated that the brass/copper H&S are replacements for lost gold ones is correct. For some reason, the H&S were prone to fall off. I have seen multiple awards with this repair and all of the brass H&S has two long prongs that are pulled threw the holes in the enamel and then pushed back (as pictured in an earlier post). I have even seen several pictures of soldiers wearing their OGPWs missing the H&S.

Ed
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Old 05-12-2002, 08:38 AM   #26
Eugene
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Even it's widely called "copper" H&S, technically it's made made of steel and covered by brass
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Old 08-17-2002, 02:26 PM   #27
Chris
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Hi Folks

Although these are in abundance they are one of my favourite Medals/Orders.

The name it self gives it much kudos in my opinion.

I Notice that the earlier awards on hangers and especially the 2nd class are getting harder and harder to find.

This just from perusing the sites

I was wondering if any members have any interesting types to share.

This is my humble starter.

A Type 1 Variation 2nd

It has a missing hanger and has the classic enamel damage to the top star ray

I picked this up in a local market when some guy just produced it from his pocket when I was looking at his more normal badges.

regards Chris
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File Type: jpg pat war t1v2.jpg (14.7 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg pat war t1v2 b.jpg (12.5 KB, 1 views)
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Old 08-17-2002, 06:13 PM   #28
Nota Bene
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Chris,

What a great piece! This one clearly illustrates why those stick-pins were considered impractical.

Alexei
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Old 08-18-2002, 04:38 AM   #29
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Hi Alexei

Thanks. I did not realise the significance of this order when I bought it for 50 dollars. Pat Wars are easy to come by and this had the hanger missing.

I realised more recently that to get one with this low number was very lucky.

You're right about the pin being impractical..you can see clearly where the pin has broken off.

Attached is a T1 V3 ..the enamel has been replaced on the top star ray and apart from that it is in good order

The wire effect is a scratch.

Hopefully this attached scan will show it more clearly.

Yes if only it could talk.......these early ones must have been hard won.

Regards Chris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pat war 2nd t1 v3 b.jpg (11.7 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg pat war 2nd t1 v3.jpg (23.0 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg scratch.jpg (2.5 KB, 2 views)
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Old 08-19-2002, 09:10 AM   #30
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Hi Alexei

This might be one for you.

I have often looked for a small version Pat War 2nd and low and behold when I looked a bit closer to day I found I had one.

I bought it before I had read about this version.

It is approx 2mm smaller than my other PW 2nd and it matches the description of Pd's book except I do not think his description "The points on the ray star are thinner in width than in all other variations" apply to the one I have.

My star is normal width but it is extremely concave which gives it the smaller diameter.

His numbers are 583155 and 616199 as the smallest and largest numbers seen. Mine is 616569.

Regards Chris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pat war 2nd concave b.jpg (9.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg pat war 2nd concave s.jpg (5.1 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg pat war no small.jpg (6.8 KB, 1 views)
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