Generals parade hats with strange tags...

[T-34]

Recently I received a offer to buy those 2 caps. At first time they seemed both original to me...good quality embroidery, right badge etc...But I became suspicious once I saw the inner tags...hhmmm:confused:. They look at least STRANGE if not...fake (to me). Never saw something alike (tags seems cut with zig-zag scissors!).

What the forum experts think about? Any comment will be highly apreciate!
Many thanks in advance!!!

D.

[T-34]

Here's the other hat...

BTW what does this (raspberry red) colour means...medical service???

Thanks again...

[Nack]

The raspberry color was used by different branches at different times.

I've always had problems with distinguishing good from bad because I've never held a real one, but these are heavily faked. Usually they come from the Ukraine. I'd be super-careful.

[Lapa]

T-34,

The tags are original. Different manufactures used different tags.
As far as I can tell, these two caps seem to be OK.

Marc

[DougD]

Hello D,

The caps are fine, both are nice mid-cold war caps (not the huge, usually unissued, 1980's caps) for tank/artillery and medical. The makers label is quite a common one for the generals caps of that era; i'd be more concerned if they did NOT have that label.

These are not faked well (yet), and as was stated before, most copies are out of Ukraine and are of very low quality.

DougD

[T-34]

Thanks to you all guys!!! I appreciare your help!!! :thumbsup

My suspect was also about the inner fabric of these caps. It seems not the silk like fabric I often see inside general’s hat, it’s not shiny but flat and seems cotton made (to me). The tag’s edges are not straight, are imperfectly cutted and not well sewn (3rd pict. ). Plus the mark itself (to me) seems not worn by usage.
LAPA/Mark and DOUGD You told the inside tags are original and Doug added they’re common types for hats of that period (70’s). I’m sorry but now I’ve some doubt more:

1- I have what I think to be an original general parade hat for airforce, made by "Kombinat" – Moscow- it’s a never worn one from 1970. Its inside tag is quite different from those above pictured. Tag has smooth and well cut and sewn edges and a different shape even if it’s from the same factory of the hats I posted. So the pin point is: I’m doubting about genuinity of MY own.
2- If we can confirm that hats are genuine What ‘s, in your opinion, the value of those hats? Please note that the tank one has a seam made with brown wire, it’s only a stitch but visible as…it’s brown!

I apologize for the time I take You . THANKS! :)

Daniele

[Esteban_cool]

What I also noticed and made me suspect was the poor quality of the stamp itself. General´s caps stamps on sweat diamonds usually don´t have that kind of "one touch" ink stamp similar to the ones on tunics. I remember seeing better quality stamps (i.e, golden ink, deep dark, burnt in leather, etc) inside general´s caps. That´s why I also thought these would be ukrainian fakes.

[Lapa]

Daniele,

As Doug told you, different types of sweat diamonds have been used over the years, even at the same factory. If you have a particular concern, please post a picture of the item in question, it is much simpler and easier for everyone to see what you are talking about. Without seeing your other cap, all I can say is that is sounds genuine to me.
Now, regarding the tank cap, I don't get your brown stich bit. Can you please explain (or better, show) more precisely what you mean.

Esteban,

These caps have obviously been worn, and the sweat sometimes tends to alter the print on the diamond.

Marc

[DougD]

Esteban,

These 2 caps are not Ukrainain fakes, not by a long shot. To be honest, its not really that close. The stamp is 100% ok, and is very typical of caps made after the mid/late 1960's up through the late 1970's, early 1980. The wearing of the hat would often rub off the stamping ink while leaving the imprint. Very common.

T-34,

These caps are good caps, probably each worth about $150 or so. The 'rough' cut edges on the sweatdiamond is common, as is the non rough cut. The flat material and the material with a sheen to it are both common, nothing to worry about. The thread used to stitch was whatever they had around, also varying from factory to factory from year to year maybe from day to day.

I think its very good that we try to nail down fakes, but we have to be careful about going overboard (as has happened with Soviet WWII items thanks to a few overzealous people); we are not really at the stage in Soviet collecting (especially postwar) where the thread color for the sweatliner stiching should be a red flag.

I have dealt with well over 200+ Soviet generals caps and I am 100% sure these are good caps, don't worry about them (other than price).

DougD
Moderator

[Nack]

Doug and Lapa are resident experts and one ought to listen to them. I wasn't trying to fuel paranoia, and didn't mean that these caps are bad, I was just attmpting to say that Ukranians like to fake post-war generals caps, so beware. :o

As Doug astutely noted, there is sooo little reference material around on post-war Soviet material that it is hard to really read up on the stuff, so you need to be cautious, but not overzealous like Doug says. You need to develop a "feel" for stuff to determine if its good or not, and that takes time. I'm still working on it over here :)