General questions/ comments on Polish awards

[Esteban_cool]

Is there any polish equivalent (or at least any award to compare) of the Soviet RB?

[charlet]

Originally Posted by Esteban_cool

Is there any polish equivalent (or at least any award to compare) of the Soviet RB?

I'd tell it is the cross of valour, which is pretty rare (following attribution statistics)

[Taz]

Originally Posted by charlet

I'd tell it is the cross of valour, which is pretty rare (following attribution statistics)

Hi Sebastian,

you jumped me on that one, you can tip a lot faster maybe :)
Does Als post answer in part your question about fake Polish awards?

Eddie.

[charlet]

Originally Posted by Taz

Hi Sebastian,

you jumped me on that one, you can tip a lot faster maybe :)
Does Als post answer in part your question about fake Polish awards?

Eddie.

I have forgotten a very prstigious award, for military valour: the Virtuti Militari of course...extremly rare, following Pr. Wiesolovski works it has been extremly few given during communist times.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by charlet

I have forgotten a very prstigious award, for military valour: the Virtuti Militari of course...extremly rare, following Pr. Wiesolovski works it has been extremly few given during communist times.

Sebastian,

The Virtuti Militari for military valour is indeed rare. It is often refered to as the Polish Victoria Cross, a little too prestigious to compare with a Red banner in my opinion.

Eddie.

[charlet]

indeed you're right Eddie. But the 2 awarding systems rely on two very historical bases...Polish system is founded on 18th century awards, with a big refondation in 1918. Soviet system was entirely nwe, with a second wave of national or patriotic (or opportunist?) awards in 1943...so we must superpose a civil war blochevik order, the red banner (and its republican counterparts) and high orders like Suvorov, Kutuzov, etc...There was orders for soldiers (Glory), and for oficers (Kutuzov, etc) a bit like in the czarist system.
The prestige of polish awards relies on rarity in awarding...and on 5 classes for Virtuti, Polonia restituta. Soviet nomenclature was more or less accurate about the motives of awarding...strategical realisations, personnal courage...So maybe we could compare a Virtuti 1st class to a Souvorov 1st? yes and no, because I don't believe a Virtitu Grand cross could be received twice, though it was possible for a souvorov 1st...

I believe as you the polish system, following west-european traditions, is far from the soviet one.

[Taz]

Sebastian,
all very good points! I think it should also be added that the awarding of a Red Banner should by no means be underestimated, this was also a prestigious award in it's own right.
I find it easier, if one has to compare Polish awards to other nations Medals and Orders according to their award system, to refer to for example French, British and to some extent American (Legion of Merit, Chief Commander, Commander etc.)
With Polish awards there is of course three main periods in time to concider, with the Exile awards if they can be counted extra, four.
What do you think?
I also think it is correct to say that there is no second awardings of the Virtuti Militari Grand Cross.


Eddie.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by charlet

...So maybe we could compare a Virtuti 1st class to a Suvorov 1st? yes and no, because I don't believe a Virtitu Grand cross could be received twice, though it was possible for a souvorov 1st...

I believe as you the polish system, following west-european traditions, is far from the soviet one.

Sebastian,

The Virtitu Grand cross is the most prestigious Polish decoration. It is awarded for extraordinary military achievements. Instituted by King Stanislaw August Poniatowski on June 22, 1792, it was initially an oval gold or silver medal. Its first recipients were Prince Jozef Poniatowski and Tadeusz Kosciuszko.
Since 1809, when its was changed to a cross, it exists in five classes, these range from the Silver Cross to the Grand Cross.
In the period 1807-1815 it bore the name Military Order of the Duchy of Warsaw. In the period 1815-1832 its name was the Polish Military Order. It was abolished by the Tsar in 1832.

Restored in 1919, the Grand Cross was awarded on six occasions in the years 1920-1938, intra alia, to Marshal Jozef Pilsudski. To-day it continues to be the highest Polish decoration.

Eddie.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Esteban_cool

Is there any polish equivalent (or at least any award to compare) of the Soviet RB?

Hi Esteban,

I think your question is somwhat similar to Tals question in the previous Polish award section so I will try to answer them both at once if I may.
Tal asked if I remember correctly what would be the Soviet equivilant of a Knight (member) regarding the classes of the Order of Polonia Restituta,Virtuti Militari etc.

The awarding structure of Polish awards, unlike other Soviet Bloc Countries has similarities with the award structure of GB or France for example and cannot be directly compared with Soviet awards for the higher class orders.
There is no HSU or HSL and there is in relation a great deal of Crosses and fewer Medals.
Honoury Titles however remained a prize award and were much treasured to the recipiant and had a high prestige.
Throughout 45 years of communist rule, Poland established only three other/new orders that didn't exist before, the Order of Builders of People's Poland, Order of the Banner of Labour (both 1949), Order of Merit (1974), and a variety of state, commemorative, ministry and organizational decorations. It should be noted, however, that even during the communist era Polish decorations retained a lot from the pre-war system. The motive of hammer and sickle or a five pointed red star, dominant in other Soviet dominated countries were practically not encountered among Polish symbols.
So as you can see there would be no one award that is a direct equivilant of a Soviet Red Banner but rather one of a selection depending on the action. Two examples would be the Merit Cross or maybe the Cross of Valour.

I hope this answers your question in part.

Eddie.