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General And Slightly Off Topic Talk Forum for exchanging ideas and talking about general issues without straying too far off topic.

View Poll Results: Repair or not
Leave the damn thing alone! Don't mess with what looks like a period repair 12 54.55%
Have the solder removed to make the serial number readable 9 40.91%
Repair the enamel only 0 0%
Remove the solder AND repair the enamel 1 4.55%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-21-2004, 07:11 PM   #141
rboomsma
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How to repair enamel??

If someone could help with this?

Not sure if this is the forum spot to ask this, the other day I picked up an 2nd class opw trench with no mint mark and what appears to be the copper hammer and sicle (has the little wires in back) for $7. But one of the enamel arms most of the enamel is gone.

Is there a enamel product I can buy to repair it? Is this something I can do myself? I know enamel was hot baked in some fashion at the mint but I know there is a cold enamel also. Can you buy it some where and how is it applied etc??

Or would it be not worth fixing and better to leave it alone??

Thanks
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Old 07-21-2004, 08:26 PM   #142
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Ron,

I have just purchased a hot enamel kit from Durenamel, but haven't had time to experiment yet. Will report on the results.

It is of course a matter of personal preference, but if the damage on that piece of yours is old, I would've left it as it is.

Alexei
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Old 07-21-2004, 09:51 PM   #143
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Enamel repairs

Hello Alexei

It looks like the damage is old, certainly not recent anyways. I was thinking the leave it as is.

But I am still interested in enamel repair, let us know how that enamel kit you got works out.
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Old 07-23-2004, 05:51 AM   #144
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Enamel Repair 101

Hi Ron,

As you know, there are 2 basic types of enamel: hot enamel (which actually is the only real enamel), and so called cold enamel, which is NOT enamel but some sort of epoxy resin that mimics enamel. The difference between these two type is that you need to bake the first one at high temperatures that can range from about 500 up to about 850~900 degrees celsius depending on the enamel itself (different colors melt at different temperatures), while the second one is applied quite simply at room temperature and polymerizes.

As we all know, real enamel is fragile, but is also very resistant to scratching for instance as it is glass. Cold enamel is much less fragile (I have yet to see accidentally damaged cold enamel), but scratches very easily (it is plastic resin). That is actually an easy test to conduct "in the wilderness" when no black light nor other equipment is available to determine the genuineness of an enameled item (if the seller KNOWS that his piece has been reenameled but wants to sell it to you as genuine, he usually turns green when he sees you pull a pin out of your pocket to conduct a scratch test )

When it comes to repairing damaged enamel, there are two basic considerations:
. do you want to repair the piece so that it looks better, without trying to pass it as original enamel, or
. do you want to repair the piece with an intent to dupe people later on
If your purpose is along the lines of the first question, then simply patch the damaged enamel with cold enamel, it will be close enough. If you are inching toward the second reason, then it is a much more involved and tricky process.

No partial real enamel repair will ever be perfect and uniform, so 99.9% of the time the repair can be detected; the most difficult thing to do in enameling is matching colors. For instance, there are over 650 different shades of blue enamel available commercially, to which you can also add those custom made. You also need to realise that the enamel powder is NOT the same shade as the fused enamel; for instance, red enamel powder is usually white or off-white. And glass enamel has a slightly different color depending on the base metal; the processing of the base metal can also have a direct influence on the final color.
As you can easily understand, this means that you have little possibilities to match precisely and accurately the final color of your repair with that of the original enamel. So, to make the repair undetectable (to a higher or lesser degree), you must therefore entirely strip the piece of its enamel using some special alchemy that I will not divulge publicly so as not to encourage new vocations . Once your piece is cleaned of all enamel and/or undercoat, you simply re-enamel it as if it were a brand new piece. This way, your final product will have consistent enamel throughout.

I will not disclose the details of the actual process as I believe that there are already enough problems with fakes and alterations without providing a handbook of the perfect kitchen enameler. On the other hand, I'll be happy to answer all general type of questions, if any.

Marc
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Old 07-23-2004, 10:44 AM   #145
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repair enamel

Thanks Marc

I will most likley leave the piece as is. I am not even sure where one would go to but this powdered enamel. I assume hooby or model shops?

Ron
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Old 07-23-2004, 10:54 AM   #146
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Hi Ron,

Actually, you need to find a shop that carry enamels and tools. And obviously, the powder itself is not enough, you'll need a furnace to bake the enamel (or, more properly, to fuse the powder into glass enamel).

Marc
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:21 PM   #147
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Marc,

what about cold enamel - can you recomment a source?

Thanks,
William
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Old 08-22-2004, 12:41 AM   #148
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Restored Orders

I can't remember if this has been discussed in the past but I'm curious what everyone thinks. I bought a part of an old Soviet collection this past weekend. One of the groups is to a man named Leonid Shershen who was awarded four Red Banners of Labor as well as an October Revolution, a Mondvor Red Star, a baby Patriotic war, and two Badge of Honors. The RBL's are as follows: T2 V3, T3 V1, T5 V2, T6 V1. In taking a close look at the T2 V3 (screw back), I noted a circular dark spot on the top edge of the order where it looks like it may have been converted to suspension at one point and then reconverted back to a screw back though the screw post looks like it was never removed. This leads (finally) to my question: If this order was reconverted, how much does it affect the value of the order? I'm sure that a reconverted order isn't as good as a "pure" one but how much is the value reduced?

Also, anyone ever hear of Shershen?


Thanks,

Doug
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Old 08-22-2004, 05:17 PM   #149
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Doug,

As long as the enamel is not damaged and the screwpost was not removed then the price should technically be the same.

Let's see some pics!!!

Rusty.
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Old 01-21-2005, 02:39 PM   #150
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How to remove lead?

I need to remove lead soldering from the order without damaging it. Maybe someone knows how to do that? Thanks.
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