Cap Badges

[fred]

Can you hep me Gentlemen.

I have three cap badges one is a two piece normal cap badge. When did they stop making two piece and please what are the other two badges. Maybe one is for railway troops. What is big badge.

and If maybe one other question when did 6 sided shoulder rank boards replace 5 sided.

Thank you

Fred

[Taz]

Fred,
The large pin on the right looks like an Oktoberists/Pioneer so called Ultimate Star Pin.
Here is what looks like a later pin version.

The middle Badge is a Cap-badge of the USSR PCMC.
Which was introduced in 1932 simultaneously with the introduction of the first Soviet uniform for railwaymen.

Eddie

[otlichnik]

Fred,

Nice hat badges.

I am pretty sure that the one on the right is an earlier Militsia (police) cap badge and not an Oktobrists star. It is definitely a hat badge.

The two piece ones remained in use but for officer hats. They are rarer than the one piece.

I have never been able to find out the exact decree or instruction which changed the shoulder boards from 5 sided to 6 sided but all anecdotal evidence points to 1947.

Shawn

[Taz]

Shawn,

Sorry, I meant Badge not pin for the right hand one.

The Soviet Emblem is certainly the same in all Militia cap Badges I,ve seen but one thing bothers me, and that is that all Militia Badges that I have found are of the Cockade type/style I haven,t actually seen a Star type Militia Badge with the Soviet Emblem in the middle, could you post a pic if you have one please.
The picture of the pin I posted was the closest resembleance I found to Freds Cap badge in the form of a Star.

Eddie.

[otlichnik]

The star with coat-of-arms in the middle was the official militsia cap badge (for most hats) from 1935 to 1950. However, the number of ribbons on the coat-of-arms varied from 6 in 1935, 10 around 1940 or so to 15 in 1947. The badge on the right is a nice rare 1940s (WWII era) militsia cap badge!

Shawn

[Taz]

Shawn,
Thanks, thats put my mind to rest.
So Freds got a nice set of Badges there and quite rare too.

[fred]

Thank you again gentlemen, you teach me something.

I see these on market and I not much interested in hats and badges but these looked so good.

Maybe I get more interested in these badges I certainly will after your information.

Here is the back they are not worn I think.

fred

[Taz]

Originally Posted by otlichnik

The star with coat-of-arms in the middle was the official militsia cap badge (for most hats) from 1935 to 1950. However, the number of ribbons on the coat-of-arms varied from 6 in 1935, 10 around 1940 or so to 15 in 1947. The badge on the right is a nice rare 1940s (WWII era) militsia cap badge!

Shawn

Hi Shawn,
In 1936-1946 the soviet state emblem had 11 ribbons (without estonian, latvian, lithuanian and moldavian)
In 1946-1956 - 16 ribbons (15 + karelian-finnish)
since 1956 - 15 ribbons.

Eddie.

[otlichnik]

Eddie,

Thanks for the details.

But don't think that the 1946 change did not result in anything new until 1947.

Also, I was under the impression that the coat of arms, for small things like badges, did not actually change in 1956. They simply decided that the bit at the bottom was now not a separate ribbon - hence drop from 16 to 15 with no design change. Or am I wrong on this??

Shawn

[Taz]

Shawn,
I don,t think the Badges changed much either, These Details would have applied to bigger Emblems where you can actualy read the writting on the seperate Ribbons.
The only case that I know of was on the Public Order Medal when it changed from 16 to 15.
These details are from a flag site so regarding the early change in 1946 I think they would probably have got there facts right.

Eddie.