Cap Badges

[RichieC]

Originally Posted by desantnik

Um, communications satellites in 1953?:)

This pattern was used well into the 70s - I assume that Soviet communications satellites existed by then... :D

[RichieC]

Originally Posted by EricFG

I assume those are the judicial badges since they're sporting a sword & shield?
PS. see page 412 in Avers8 for those.

Eric!

Please elaborate.

I have known about these AVERS references, but do not own any. Do you think it is required reading?

Does this reference show cockardes along with badges?

[deValcourt]

Originally Posted by RichieC

Trans-literal for this is PROKURATURA - So I would think it means PROSECUTOR/JUDICIAL...

It would be similar to the US Office of the Attorney General with Federal Prosecutors assigned to various federal cases except that in the Soviet Union you had all-union level, then district and local all working for the same overall "boss." Here each of these "people's" prosecutors (federal, state and local/county/parish or "district attorneys" operate independently of each other. The judiciary branch is supposed to be separate from the district and US attorneys, but that is a debatable point.;)

Originally Posted by RichieC

Eric!

Please elaborate.

I have known about these AVERS references, but do not own any. Do you think it is required reading?

Does this reference show cockardes along with badges?

If you like badges, then I'd say yes, they are indispensable, required insomuch as they often picture very scarce badges and occasionally accompanying document examples. If you are even barely literate in Russian, it isn't hard to navigate your way through the largest of the Soviet badge books (Avers 8). I think Avers 9 is out now, but it deals with badges of masonic and other secret societies of the 19th-20th centuries (picture attached). Not my thing.:D They are very well laid out with excellent pictures of mostly badge obverse ("avers") photos and where similar designs are involved, they often include the reverse if it is needed to tell one from another type or variation. They also have controversial prices attached to each badge (it is called a "price guide"). Most collectors believe that the editors were high when they came up with the ridiculous prices that are either way to high or out-of-date by the time the first ones printed are sold. You could probably get two average OGIIIs for the amount of money many sellers want for the actual paper edition of Avers No. 8.:thumbsdown There are other ways...:rolleyes:

If I remember correctly, there are a few cockades, but they are mostly for police/militia. I could be mistaken since those are the types of things I tend to look at most.:D

Phillip

P.S. Thanks for the photo ID of the cockade - the original reason this thread got cranked up again.:thumbsup

[meyerse]

Could someone date this one for me? It was sold to me as wartime, somehow I doubt it but it wasn't expensive so I bought it as a reference piece. It seems to be 32mm (but this seems like an odd size from what I've read on here, I measures from point to point). Any assistance you may be able to provide would be most appreciated. This is my first hat badge.

[RichieC]

Originally Posted by meyerse

Could someone date this one for me?

IMO, mid/late 50s.

As far as your 32MM measurement, that is OK. I have always thought (and the same is printed in one of the more recent Russian language reference books) that most of this type and their earlier predecessors measured 34MM - until I bought a metric dial caliper, checked all of my examples, and came up with a 32mm measurement on 99% of them....

Ooops... :whistler

[meyerse]

Originally Posted by RichieC

IMO, mid/late 50s.

As far as your 32MM measurement, that is OK. I have always thought (and the same is printed in one of the more recent Russian language reference books) that most of this type and their earlier predecessors measured 34MM - until I bought a metric dial caliper, checked all of my examples, and came up with a 32mm measurement on 99% of them....

Ooops... :whistler

Thank you very much for your quick and helpful response.
Could you suggest to me what tips you off to the date on this one? Is it some feature that I can reference? I am quite intrigued by these insignia and may need to pick up more when I feel I've got a handle on dating them.

[EricFG]

Originally Posted by meyerse

Thank you very much for your quick and helpful response.
Could you suggest to me what tips you off to the date on this one? Is it some feature that I can reference? I am quite intrigued by these insignia and may need to pick up more when I feel I've got a handle on dating them.

First: Get 'Mr. Cap Star'; aka Richie C. in your corner. :) Dude knows his stars.
Second: I think the 3-piece stars (H&S as a seperate piece with their own prongs) are older. And....
Third: check this thread for a lot more help: http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/s...cap-stars.html

[meyerse]

Originally Posted by EricFG

First: Get 'Mr. Cap Star'; aka Richie C. in your corner. :) Dude knows his stars.
Second: I think the 3-piece stars (H&S as a seperate piece with their own prongs) are older. And....
Third: check this thread for a lot more help: http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/s...cap-stars.html

Sure, what I can't see is the difference between the one I posted and yours in post 27 on that thread which has been deduced to be wartime. I'm simply missing the detail which indicates the difference. Often times once you have two of them in hand you can 'just tell' but I don't see (can't find) the difference.

[RichieC]

I take full responsibility for all the variances in my postings - thus, the confusion created from such...

As it has been some time now, significant accumulation of specimens on my part, and further discussion with others who specialize in these little guys has yielded further information, and other variances to "contrer" what has been "published" - of course, much is still conjecture, and will be for a long time - IMO.

I see the interest is truly there, so let me know, and I would be more than happy to composite something that will make some kind of generalisation from what I have at my disposal at this time...

[meyerse]

Originally Posted by RichieC

I take full responsibility for all the variances in my postings - thus, the confusion created from such...

As it has been some time now, significant accumulation of specimens on my part, and further discussion with others who specialize in these little guys has yielded further information, and other variances to "contrer" what has been "published" - of course, much is still conjecture, and will be for a long time - IMO.

I see the interest is truly there, so let me know, and I would be more than happy to composite something that will make some kind of generalisation from what I have at my disposal at this time...

There is definitely interest. I think a document (with version numbers) which shows even current conjecture would go a long way. Showing detailed photos, front and back with annotation as to what the relevant 'features' are would be a popular document. This is particularly true for cap badges which did not change significantly from wartime to post war. versions like the two piece stars are pretty clear, but these other sizes such as the 32mm (34mm?) which were made for many years can be confusing without having examples right in front of you I suspect.

I'd be happy to assist in some document creation (PDF) and version number tracking.