Medical Uniforms and Insignia

[DougD]

Like judicial boards, not all medical boards were narrow. They could be either the narrow or wide boards; there are some pics in this thread of both the wide and narrow medical generals versions.

DougD

[moskovite]

Originally Posted by DougD

Like judicial boards, not all medical boards were narrow. They could be either the narrow or wide boards; there are some pics in this thread of both the wide and narrow medical generals versions.

DougD

Until 1958 all medical, veterinarian and judicial shoulder boards were narrow. Examples you are referring to either past that date or with wrong branch insignia attached. Shoulder boards in question are made prior to 1958. They are for administrative, technical and supply of boarder guard troops with wrong insignia.

[DougD]

Do you mean that all the 'wide' M1943 generals boards for legal and medical are all incorrect as well? Or are you just refering to officers?

I have seen other M1943 wide boards with medical insignia, so if you are correct about regs then I'd have to assume they used the boards that are available.

[moskovite]

Originally Posted by DougD

Do you mean that all the 'wide' M1943 generals boards for legal and medical are all incorrect as well? Or are you just refering to officers?

I have seen other M1943 wide boards with medical insignia, so if you are correct about regs then I'd have to assume they used the boards that are available.

All generals and officers shoulder boards were narrow with exception in the Navy. If officer or general in naval medical service graduated from Naval Medical School he was entitled to wide shoulder boards right away. If he graduated from any non Navy military medical school he was entitled to wide shoulder boards after one year of service in the Navy. If he graduated from civilian medical school he was entitled to wide shoulder boards after 3 years of service in the Navy.

After 1958 narrow shoulder boards were abolished but wide general’s shoulder boards were left for summer coat only. This is main reason why they are relatively common.

[DougD]

In regards to the Army Generals rank boards being only narrow before 1958, I'll have to disagree as there are quite a few examples of M1943 and M1945 wide boards known for both medical and judicial generals. See the thread on the Legal uniforms for an M1945 Major General with the wide boards, and this thread for Clete's photo of the wide medical generals boards. They may or may not be against regulation (using silver administrative boards to fill needs?). The narrow boards are shown in these threads as well.

[moskovite]

Originally Posted by DougD

In regards to the Army Generals rank boards being only narrow before 1958, I'll have to disagree as there are quite a few examples of M1943 and M1945 wide boards known for both medical and judicial generals. See the thread on the Legal uniforms for an M1945 Major General with the wide boards, and this thread for Clete's photo of the wide medical generals boards. They may or may not be against regulation (using silver administrative boards to fill needs?). The narrow boards are shown in these threads as well.

As you clearly can see in exhibit 1, by 1955 wide medical general’s boards stll existed only in the Navy. But to wear them it was a privilege. If Naval Medical general or officer meet the requirements I’ve mentioned above then Military council of the fleet of flotilla made the decision about permission to wear wide shoulder boards and that decision was recorded in personal file of the officer or general. Only then he can wear them.

In 1958 narrow shoulder boards were abolished all together. In exhibit 2 you can see 1958 regulations were medical, veterinarian and justice generals first time received wide shoulder boards. But as you can see in exhibit 3 type 43 shoulder boards were left as well (in regulation it says for everyday uniform, but in fact for summer coats only).

In conclusion when you see in this tread or elsewhere “model 43” (what you meant by "model 45" I have no idea) wide judicial shoulder boards they are in fact 1958 model. And if you see “model 43” wide medical shoulder boards they 99% are 1958 model. Real model 1943 wide medical general shoulder boards are so rare, they almost don’t exist and they slightly different from 1958 model.

[DougD]

I think we are talking about different things here as I am not talking about Navy in any way; as you can see earlier in this thread I posted a thin M1943 parade board for a Major General of Naval Medical services. It was on an M1945 Medical Generals parade tunic. Here it is again; sorry for the weak photo, but I have not had the tunic in my hands in 10 years or so; next to it is the wide on an M1943 parade tunic (again, sory for poor quality pic). My thoughts were dealing with the non-Navy boards.

Also, when I stated 'model 45 ' I am referring to the M1945 uniform, not M1945 'boards'.

In the end I'll have to disagree with you on this (non-Navy) based on what I have seen. As it is apparent we are not going to come to the same conclusion, I'll leave it here; these discussions often end where they began.The boards I have seen, both on and off tunics, are not M1958, not 1970's, etc. I'll base my opinions on the examples I have seen and had in my hands (like the two I posted above), you may base your opinion on the regulations and what you have seen/had.

[Riley1965]

Originally Posted by moskovite

Until 1958 all medical, veterinarian and judicial shoulder boards were narrow. Examples you are referring to either past that date or with wrong branch insignia attached. Shoulder boards in question are made prior to 1958. They are for administrative, technical and supply of boarder guard troops with wrong insignia.

Sir,
I appreciate your input. However in this case you are wrong. Several People, including very knowledgeable Russians, at several forums have certified these boards as genuine and quite rare. The insignia is correct!! The people that have verified these boards have many years of experience with shoulderboards. I trust them 100% just as these boards are 100% genuine including insignia. They have been placed as 1947 era.

:) Doc

[DougD]

Lets keep this great thread moving in the right direction...nice shot from 1941 for Doctor of the Army 3rd Rank Shivchenko.

DougD

[Riley1965]

Service uniform of a Navy Medical Service polkovnik (Colonel). The only Naval uniform in my collection.

:) Doc