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The Researchers' Corner Research; the mysterious process which slowly sweeps away the passage of time to reveal the unique history within every award and unit.

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Old 06-09-2003, 12:50 PM   #1
mcwirsk
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Soviets in the Colonies

Dear Guys

I am interested to know if anyone has any medal groups to Soviets who served in the cold war period outside of the Soviet Union in interesting places.

We know they had guys in Mozambique, Angola, Egypt and other interesting places.

Has anyone come across groups/medals/orders to any of these people. And on the other side has anyone seen medals from these countries in Soviet groups. Lastly how about any groups from these countries with a Soviet award?

Whats out there??????

Kind regards from the African connection


Munroe
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Old 04-04-2004, 02:40 PM   #2
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Any Info?

Guys,
This is a rather old Thread but maybe it should recive a bit of attention.
If we can't find any pics of groups I wonder if there is any info out there of Soviets recieving any awards from these Countries?

Eddie.
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Old 04-06-2004, 04:47 PM   #3
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Eddie,

That would be quite interesting indeed!
Born in Angola I'd be interested to know if some Angolan Awards have been awarded to Soviets having served there, or the other possibilities Munroe mentions!

I have no idea where to look for such info, but if you give me a hint may be I could try to do some research.

Thanks,

Dolf
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Old 04-06-2004, 06:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolf
Eddie,

That would be quite interesting indeed!
Born in Angola I'd be interested to know if some Angolan Awards have been awarded to Soviets having served there, or the other possibilities Munroe mentions!

I have no idea where to look for such info, but if you give me a hint may be I could try to do some research.

Thanks,

Dolf
Dolf,

I've been reading through a few sites on the "Angolan war" for mentions of awards with no luck up to now.

Eddie.
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Last edited by Taz; 08-09-2004 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:48 AM   #5
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Dear Guys

I am not sure if the Angolans had any medals to issue. I have not seen anything from that area. Just a few Unita items. There were a lots of Cubans there (we captured a few) and we found some Soviet uniforms and badges etc. I will check if we ever captured a Soviet. But one thing is for sure - they were there. The South Africans had a few CIA boys with them.

Its a very interesting topic. I have a picture of Col Gen Dragunsky with some Mozambique officers (Its in his book) I have also never seen any Mozambique medals of this time period.

Regards from South Africa
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Old 04-07-2004, 10:30 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcwirsk
Dear Guys

I am not sure if the Angolans had any medals to issue. I have not seen anything from that area. Just a few Unita items. There were a lots of Cubans there (we captured a few) and we found some Soviet uniforms and badges etc. I will check if we ever captured a Soviet. But one thing is for sure - they were there. The South Africans had a few CIA boys with them.

Its a very interesting topic. I have a picture of Col Gen Dragunsky with some Mozambique officers (Its in his book) I have also never seen any Mozambique medals of this time period.

Regards from South Africa
Munroe,
Through reading a few articles it seems that the Cubans at least, never recived any Angolan awards so that might well be the case that they didn't have any to award.

Eddie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcwirsk

There were a lots of Cubans there (we captured a few) and we found some Soviet uniforms and badges etc. I will check if we ever captured a Soviet. But one thing is for sure - they were there. The South Africans had a few CIA boys with them.
The Marxist MPLA was helped by an estimated 40 000 Cuban soldiers and Soviet arms and equipment, as well as Soviet and East German soldiers stationed in Angola as military advisers.
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Old 04-08-2004, 05:06 PM   #7
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Eddie,

That is correct.
The "internationalist" soldiers fighting with the MPLA were indeed Cubans (even thought there were a few Portuguese too), the USSR and DDR guys there were considered just military advisers and I'm not sure if they ever took part in any combat situation. Unless perhaps flying those Migs!...

I also think the Angolan government didn't have any Awards to give during that period. Not even sure they have some now! I can try to ask for the help of a couple of friends living there and a familly member currently working there.

So I guess the only possibility is that some of the Soviets stationed there have been awarded some Soviet Awards for that.

Best,

Dolf

Last edited by Dolf; 04-09-2004 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 04-09-2004, 06:17 AM   #8
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I also think that the Medal situation is much the same in Mozambique and the other former Colonies.
After Portugal granted Mozambique independence, also in 1974, the soldiering was done by Cuban's and the Soviets took on the Military advisers role.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angola - MPLA/ Movimento Popular de Libertacao de Angola

The MPLA was backed by 11,000 Cuban combat troops, 400 Russian advisers, and nearly $200 million of Soviet military equipment. Soviet arms included heavy artillery, medium tanks, truck-mounted multitube rocket launchers, and light aircraft.
Since the victory of the Marxist rebels in the Angolan Civil War, the Soviet Union and Cuba had maintained their presence in Angola. In October 1976, the Soviet leadership signed a friendship and cooperation treaty with President Agostinho Neto’s government. As of 1981, Moscow had about 1000 advisers in Angola who were participating in the operation of the Angolan military. Cuba had maintained a force of approximately 20,000 men in Angola. There are no specific figures on Soviet military hardware in Angola.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mozambique - FRELIMO/Frente de Libertacao de Mocambique

Soviet relations with Mozambique had grown closer since the mid-1970s. At one time, President Machel’s government was closely identified with China, but since 1976, Machel has sought and received help from the Soviet Union. Soviet-Mozambique contacts were firmly cemented in 1977, when the two governments signed a friendship and cooperation pact. The U.S.S.R. has supported Mozambique with shipments of military hardware, including modern tanks, artillery, and armored personnel carriers. In addition, as of 1981, there were approximately 230 Soviet and East European military advisers in Mozambique. Cuba has approximately 800 men there.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soviet bloc military and civilian advisers
In Southern Africa: 1982


Sub-Saharan Africa / Soviet/ Cuban / East German
----------------------------------------------------------
Angola / 700 / 18,000 / 450
Congo / 850/ 950 / 15
Ethiopia / 2,400 / 5,900 / 550
Guinea / 375 / 280 / 125
Madagascar/ 370 / 55 / --
Mali / 635 / -- / 20
Mozambique / 500 / 1,000/ 100
Tanzania / 300/ 95 / 15
--------------------------------------------------------
Total: 6,130 / 26,280/ 1,275


Ten major "liberation movements" had emerged in southern Africa since the 1960s.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Movimento Popular de Libertacao de Angola (MPLA) The Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola
Frente Nacional de Libertacao da Angola (FNLA) The National Front for the Liberation of Angola
Uniao Nacional para a Independencia Total de Angola (UNITA) National Union for Total Independence of Angola
Zimbabwe African People’s Union (ZAPU)
Zimbabwe African National Union (ZANU) in Zimbabwe
South-West Africa People’s Organization (SWAPO) in Namibia
African National Congress (ANC)
Pan-Africanist Congress (PAC) in South Africa
Frente de Libertacao de Mocambique (FRELIMO) The Liberation Front of Mozambique
National Resistance Movement (NRM) in Mozambique.
In addition, there have been a dozen or more smaller groups such as the Lesotho Liberation Army in Lesotho

Eddie.
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Old 04-09-2004, 10:53 AM   #9
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Madagascar - FAP (Forces Armees Populaires)

During the Ratsiraka era, the FAP (Forces Armees Populaires) gradually abandoned its almost total reliance on France for equipment and training, and looked to several communist nations for foreign military assistance.
During the 1975-82 period, the FAP acquired artillery, small arms, and ammunition from North Korea and the People's Republic of China; two landing craft from North Korea; three Mi-8 helicopters, twelve MiG-21 jet fighter aircraft, and two An-26 transport aircraft from the former Soviet Union. North Korea also provided four MiG-17s on long-term loan, and about ninety military advisers who furnished crew and maintenance support for these aircraft. Approximately 130 Soviet technicians maintained the MiG-21s and the An-26s. FAP personnel received training from Cuban, Romanian, Soviet, and Chinese instructors. As Ratsiraka's radicalism waned, Madagascar distanced itself from these countries. The collapse of the Soviet Union signaled the end Madagascar's reliance on the communist world for military assistance.

Major Soviet Equipment of Madagascar Armed Forces.(1994)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Light tanks - 12, PT-76.
Reconnaissance - 35, BRDM-2 armored cars.
Towed artillery - 12, ZIS-3 76mm and 12, D-30 122mm.
Mortars - ?, M-37 82mm and 8, M-43 120mm.
Air defense guns - 50, ZPU-4 14.5mm and 20, 37mm Type 55.
Fighter ground attack aircraft - 8, MiG-21FL Fishbed and 4, MiG-17F Fresco.
Transport aircraft - 4, An-26 Curl and 2, Yak-40 Codling.
Helicopters - 6, Mi-8 Hip.

Eddie.
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Old 04-09-2004, 11:12 AM   #10
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Egypt - The "War of Attrition"

In 1970 during the "War of Attrition," a 12,000-strong Soviet expeditionary air defense corps was sent to Egypt to help fight the Israeli air force. None of the officers or troops was told the ultimate destination before they docked in Alexandria, Egypt. The level of secrecy was such that generals, other officers and troops were disguised as civilians, their transport ships supposedly were carrying "farming equipment," the ship captains were allowed to open an envelope containing information on their final destination only after they reached the Eastern Mediterranean, and strict orders were issued to shoot to kill any serviceman who jumped overboard while the transport ships were passing the Bosporus.
Of course, Western intelligence services knew there were Soviet combat troops in the conflict area, but it was impossible to prove this publicly, because there were no prisoners. (Russian pilots were forbidden to fly close to enemy-occupied territory.) In most of such conflicts the Soviet Union provided large amounts of arms, military equipment and ammunition. Russian technicians and specialists trained Koreans, Vietnamese, Arabs and others to use Russian arms. Soviet generals served as advisers, helping local military staffs to deploy forces armed with modern weapons.
Soviet combat troops were deployed mostly on temporary bases -- to help train local staff and to perform combat duties until the locals' training was completed, so that modern weapons could be put into action immediately to tilt the military balance.

In Egypt Russia lost 25 military advisers and 35 combat personnel.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even though the Egyptian military became oriented toward the West after the October 1973 War, it still had large amounts of Soviet equipment in its arms inventory. As of 1989, an estimated five of the twelve divisions and portions of other units had made the transition to American equipment and order of battle. The stock of main battle tanks consisted of 785 M60A3s from the United States, together with more than 1,600 Soviet-made T-54, T-55, and T-62 models. Some of these older Soviet tanks were being refitted in the West with 105mm guns, diesel engines, fire-control systems, and external armor. Armored personnel carriers (APCs) consisted of 1,000 M-113A2s from the United States, more than 1,000 BTR-50s and OT-62s from the Soviet Union, and about 200 Fahds, which were manufactured in Egypt based on a design from the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany). The army also had more than 700 infantry combat vehicles that were manufactured by the Soviet Union and Spain. Egypt also launched a program to increase the mobility of artillery and rockets by mounting them on the chassis of tanks and APCs.
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