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Soviet Orders Physical Characteristics, History, Types/Variations, Identification, Collecting Stories, anything relevant to the collecting of authentic Soviet Orders (Ордена СССР) is here.

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Old 03-26-2005, 05:07 PM   #31
HuliganRS
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That's kool!
I'd buy it too!!!

Rusty.
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Old 03-26-2005, 06:04 PM   #32
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That is cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuliganRS
That's kool!
I'd buy it too!!!

Rusty.

I agree! :D

Marc,

The brass definitely gives it a completely different look (beyond the obvious color difference I mean). Any explanation on its origin or why it was cast this way?

-Sean
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Old 03-26-2005, 06:56 PM   #33
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Sean,
It was not cast, but struck regularly at the mint. I believe that it is one of the pieces they strike to test and adjust the die pressure before striking the actual orders. Once the press has been adjusted, the test pieces are simply discarded and destroyed, so, the real question here is how did it ever get out of LMD!

Rusty,
When I saw it, I just had to have it :D Well, you know the feeling, right...

Marc
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Old 03-26-2005, 07:24 PM   #34
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Thanks for the info Marc. It makes sense that they might use different material to differentiate it from a standard (actual) piece.

I agree - I wonder if they were removed with the idea of selling them or a sort of sentimental value? More importantly, I'd like to meet that press operator and arrange a few exchanges! :D

Anyway - Marc - congrats on a very nice and interesting piece!
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Old 03-26-2005, 07:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapa
Sean,
It was not cast, but struck regularly at the mint. I believe that it is one of the pieces they strike to test and adjust the die pressure before striking the actual orders. Once the press has been adjusted, the test pieces are simply discarded and destroyed, so, the real question here is how did it ever get out of LMD!

Rusty,
When I saw it, I just had to have it :D Well, you know the feeling, right...

Marc
Marc,

This is a one bloc solid piece, right?

The holes where the rivets would have been are just holes, from one side of the bloc to the other opposite side?

Thanks,

Dolf

PS: As for me, yes, I guess I can imagine the feeling ;)
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Old 03-26-2005, 08:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapa
Sean,
It was not cast, but struck regularly at the mint. I believe that it is one of the pieces they strike to test and adjust the die pressure before striking the actual orders. Once the press has been adjusted, the test pieces are simply discarded and destroyed, so, the real question here is how did it ever get out of LMD!

Rusty,
When I saw it, I just had to have it :D Well, you know the feeling, right...

Marc
Marc,

I would have to disagree. To test pressure you would need the die to strike the end product metal. If you test it with a softer or harder metal the results are off. Also, why drill/punch holes in a test piece???

I do like the piece though!

Rusty.
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Old 03-26-2005, 08:21 PM   #37
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Thought it could be used (somehow for the reverse!) as a mould... :rolleyes:

So if soon we see the Western market full of them we know where they come from, Marc... :D (kidding!)

Dolf
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Old 03-27-2005, 12:45 PM   #38
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This piece had me thinking...

When a medal is struck it isn't struck as a finished piece. Usually the mint workers have to do final touch-ups.

So I figure that this piece is a for collectors copy.

Regardless, it's a great piece!

Rusty.
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Old 03-27-2005, 12:58 PM   #39
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Dolf,
Yes, the holes go from side to side, and it is a solid piece. And I am afraid that you may not see a flood of these anytime soon (see below) :)

Sean,
Here is the story I got about this piece. Back in the early 80's, one of the Mint employees found a way to smuggle a few bits and pieces out of the Mint. Now, you have to realize that mints worldwide are very security conscious, and that such smuggling is basically non-existant, even if there have been a few documented cases such as this one in Leningrad, or at the San Francisco Mint, for instance. After a few months, the guy was caught; the Mint had found out that some non-precious metal was missing (it was brass) and finally identified him. He was apparently tried for theft of State property. At his trial, he stated that he had manufactured and smuggled out 10 brass ORBL and [I can't remember how many] brass OBH.
With the opening of the Soviet archives, it may be possible to research this happening.

Rusty,
Mints tend to adjust their coining presses using soft metals so as not to damage the dies before going into production. Although the metals may behave slightly differently when struck, it is enough of an indication about such parameters as gap, striking pressure, metal flow, etc.

Marc
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Old 03-27-2005, 02:19 PM   #40
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Marc,

This is extremely interesting. I think it would be very rewarding to further investigate the case and how these specific pieces got to where they are today. I wonder if he produced with the intent to smuggle them out?

Did you get this information from your seller or were you able to research it? (not trying to pry, mind you, I just think it is great to discover such varied histories with our collections)

Well, again, this is very interesting. Keep us informed on anything else you find!

-Sean

P.S. The trial makes me think of what I would do in such a position: (while working the line at mondvor) "one mint ORB for the Soviet Presidium, one for me - one mint OAN for the Soviets, one for me . . ."

I wouldn't steal of course, but the oppurtunity would be tempting! :D
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